Coronavirus

[Diego]

That's you though mate. I'm no doctor, neither are the vast majority of people. They suffer from an early symptom, they're troubled by it, talk to a GP over the phone or online, but will trust what the GP tells them. It's only when it becomes significantly worse, and at the point where the treatment will be far more severe (maybe even irreversible) that they might demand to see the GP. It's the nature of humans. By then it's too late and that's what's been happening. And tbph if there's "always going to be cases of where things go wrong" as a result of not seeing patients face to face then bollox to it, go back to face to face. Even one patient suffering or dying as a result of something avoidable is one too many. It's not a failed surgery or a procedure where you can go "these things happen", it's something they were doing before and could go back to.

I work with a guy (bit of a dramatist so hard to know when to believe him but) he has had no problem getting scans and tests for all manner of things over the last 18 months including tests for Prostate cancer (twice) Spinal damage (three times) and knee damage (twice) plus the odd illness.
Man is a dreamer but has shown the appointments to management so they are available when seen as needed.

 

[Treble]

I think you miss the fact that we are born to die mate and holding a doctor or a surgery to account by saying one avoidable death is one too many, is like holding the medical profession to ransom. It's like saying if you don't see that person who has a sniffle, they might die of pneumonia....no it's a sniffle. It just seems to me, people want to be negative about anything and everything, we are human, we are designed to make mistakes, now people might not like that, but it's reality. I don't like seeing deaths on the M25, so should we take all the cars off the road before someone gets killed. Like I said, what about the millions of successful patient outcomes, nah people don't want to chat about them numbers. Crass maybe, but how much longer do you think you have to live, I'll be damn lucky if I see out another 10 years, so will lots of other people on this forum, it's called living and dying mate.

I think the word avoidable you used is what's important here. Of course people will live and die. If that's all we're considering then lets do away with the health service altogether and get on with living and dying. But whilst there is a health service, and one that we're all paying for, they have a responsibility to do what they can to minimise avoidable risks in the health and well-being of people. Like I said, if it was a failed operation or treatment where the doctors had done everything, then it's one of those things. That is life and death. But where doing something as seeing someone face to face could've made the difference in diagnosing one person with canceer early enough to treat them then I really don't see the argument. I mean, there's actually not been an argument as to why we should do the majority of appointments online is there?

The numbers of appointments in July iirc were at pre-pandemic levels (29 million iirc) so clear any remaining backlog and go back to at least offering people the choice. Those that are happy to have it online, can. Those that want it face to face, can also. Why wouldn't anyone want that?

 

[brb]

I think the word avoidable you used is what's important here. Of course people will live and die. If that's all we're considering then lets do away with the health service altogether and get on with living and dying. But whilst there is a health service, and one that we're all paying for, they have a responsibility to do what they can to minimise avoidable risks in the health and well-being of people. Like I said, if it was a failed operation or treatment where the doctors had done everything, then it's one of those things. That is life and death. But where doing something as seeing someone face to face could've made the difference in diagnosing one person with canceer early enough to treat them then I really don't see the argument. I mean, there's actually not been an argument as to why we should do the majority of appointments online is there?

The numbers of appointments in July iirc were at pre-pandemic levels (29 million iirc) so clear any remaining backlog and go back to at least offering people the choice. Those that are happy to have it online, can. Those that want it face to face, can also. Why wouldn't anyone want that?

I'm just going to repeat what I said, and what Diego has highlighted in his post. I've not had a problem. It's down to you as an individual, maybe I'm more persuasive than some. Normally the first question the surgery will ask you is, is it an emergency, it requires one word....YES!

 

[Diego]

I think you miss the fact that we are born to die mate and holding a doctor or a surgery to account by saying one avoidable death is one too many, is like holding the medical profession to ransom. It's like saying if you don't see that person who has a sniffle, they might die of pneumonia....no it's a sniffle. It just seems to me, people want to be negative about anything and everything, we are human, we are designed to make mistakes, now people might not like that, but it's reality. I don't like seeing deaths on the M25, so should we take all the cars off the road before someone else gets killed. Like I said, what about the millions of successful patient outcomes, nah people don't want to chat about them numbers. Crass maybe, but how much longer do you think you have to live, I'll be damn lucky if I see out another 10 years, so will lots of other people on this forum, it's called living and dying mate.

We have become far to successful at prolonging/extending life (and in a lot of cases just a semblance of life) which is why the world population has gone from 6bl to 7bl in a very short space of time.
We live on a finite planet that can only support so much, we need to learn when to let go and just remember people we have loved as we knew them.

 

[Treble]

I work with a guy (bit of a dramatist so hard to know when to believe him but) he has had no problem getting scans and tests for all manner of things over the last 18 months including tests for Prostate cancer (twice) Spinal damage (three times) and knee damage (twice) plus the odd illness.
Man is a dreamer but has shown the appointments to management so they are available when seen as needed.

I get it Diego. But what about the many fit and healthy people who have rarely used the GP but get a symptom of something which had they been seen face to face could have been diagnosed early, but instead based on a remote Q & A are unnecessarily delayed in receiving that diagnosis?

Look at this way. What exactly are you arguing against here? Giving people the choice of of face face appointments. Why?

 

[brb]

I work with a guy (bit of a dramatist so hard to know when to believe him but) he has had no problem getting scans and tests for all manner of things over the last 18 months including tests for Prostate cancer (twice) Spinal damage (three times) and knee damage (twice) plus the odd illness.
Man is a dreamer but has shown the appointments to management so they are available when seen as needed.

I needed to speak to my doctor today, within 2-3 hours, job done. Can't really ask for a better response than that but you won't read about these cases in the media, because it don't make great selling headlines.

 

[Treble]

We have become far to successful at prolonging/extending life (and in a lot of cases just a semblance of life) which is why the world population has gone from 6bl to 7bl in a very short space of time.
We live on a finite planet that can only support so much, we need to learn when to let go and just remember people we have loved as we knew them.

Maybe for an old fart like you yeh

You've lived a full life mate. But for a woman in her 20's who suffers back pain and is diagnosed remotely as having a compressed nerve but later turns out to be cancer which could've been treated had she been seen initially, no. There was no need to let go ffs

 

[Diego]

I get it Diego. But what about the many fit and healthy people who have rarely used the GP but get a symptom of something which had they been seen face to face could have been diagnosed early, but instead based on a remote Q & A are unnecessarily delayed in receiving that diagnosis?

Look at this way. What exactly are you arguing against here? Giving people the choice of of face face appointments. Why?

Not at all mate, what i am saying is G has had no problem getting appointments and referrals all through the pandemic.
Not saying this is typical but it's all i have to go off because i don't personally know anyone who has had problems.

 

[brb]

We have become far to successful at prolonging/extending life (and in a lot of cases just a semblance of life) which is why the world population has gone from 6bl to 7bl in a very short space of time.
We live on a finite planet that can only support so much, we need to learn when to let go and just remember people we have loved as we knew them.

It's like a witchhunt sometimes with the medical profession. I look back to my younger days, when I never had time of sick, but it was the norm back then, you carried on regardless, and got on with it, if you wanted to better yourself. Chief and Comm on here, typical examples of that attitude, workhorses and proud. Way too much crying these days.

 

[brb]

Maybe for an old fart like you yeh

You've lived a full life mate. But for a woman in her 20's who suffers back pain and is diagnosed remotely as having a compressed nerve but later turns out to be cancer which could've been treated had she been seen initially, no. There was no need to let go ffs

but the doctor's surgery would never have diagnosed that in a face to face appointment. That would have been diagnosed via the hospital if referred.

 

[Treble]

Not at all mate, what i am saying is G has had no problem getting appointments and referrals all through the pandemic.
Not saying this is typical but it's all i have to go off because i don't personally know anyone who has had problems.

So you and brb make all your judgements based on what is personally happening to you and the people around you? Even if there is a weight of evidence that this is impacting people elsewhere in the country. You're not going consider them. They don't matter or maybe they're lying. Or they're drama queens or somnt.

I take it you support the Insulate Britain folk who are supergluing themselves on the M25 and risking the health of people trying to get to hospital. Unless it's someone you know?

 

[Treble]

but the doctor's surgery would never have diagnosed that in a face to face appointment. That would have been diagnosed via the hospital if referred.

No but they would've seen enough to refer it to a hospital, is the point.

 

[brb]

So you and brb make all your judgements based on what is personally happening to you and the people around you? Even if there is a weight of evidence that this is impacting people elsewhere in the country. You're not going consider them. They don't matter or maybe they're lying. Or they're drama queens or somnt.

I take it you support the Insulate Britain folk who are supergluing themselves on the M25 and risking the health of people trying to get to hospital. Unless it's someone you know?

But that's all we can make a judgement on, our own experiences. I can't cry for someone elses, that some rag wants to tell us about.

 

[brb]

No but they would've seen enough to refer it to a hospital, is the point.

Wrong. Your description with the back excluding cancer, I would have referred you to hospital, and I'm not even a fooking doctor! A face to face appointment at the surgery would not have sorted it, you're crying over nothing bro.

 

[Treble]

It's like a witchhunt sometimes with the medical profession. I look back to my younger days, when I never had time of sick, but it was the norm back then, you carried on regardless, and got on with it, if you wanted to better yourself. Chief and Comm on here, typical examples of that attitude, workhorses and proud. Way too much crying these days.

What a load of bollox, it's nothing of the sort I've not said any of that. You don't know me brb and fwiw I dare say I've had fewer days off work sick than you.

 

[Treble]

Wrong. Your description with the back excluding cancer, I would have referred you to hospital, and I'm not even a fooking doctor! A face to face appointment at the surgery would not have sorted it, you're crying over nothing bro.

Eh?? I've just said a face to face appointment would provide more opportunity to examine and then refer to a hospital

 

[brb]

What a load of bollox, it's nothing of the sort I've not said any of that. You don't know me brb and fwiw I dare say I've had fewer days off work sick than you.

oh it's a competition now, who's had the least amount of sick days, not caring so much for your patient now. Anyway, glad we could sort it over the net, with no face to face appointment, I knew you'd see sense in the end.

 

[Treble]

But that's all we can make a judgement on, our own experiences. I can't cry for someone elses, that some rag wants to tell us about.

You're beginning to sound like Abe mate. You'll be crying about MSM next

 

[brb]

Eh?? I've just said a face to face appointment would provide more opportunity to examine and then refer to a hospital

What do you think the doctor is actually going to examine. Show me your back please....you got a spot on your back, it's just a zit. I'll refer you to hospital, because I'm not superman and I don't have x-ray eyes.

 

[Diego]

So you and brb make all your judgements based on what is personally happening to you and the people around you? Even if there is a weight of evidence that this is impacting people elsewhere in the country. You're not going consider them. They don't matter or maybe they're lying. Or they're drama queens or somnt.

I take it you support the Insulate Britain folk who are supergluing themselves on the M25 and risking the health of people trying to get to hospital. Unless it's someone you know?

Where da **** you get that from, i would run the lot over and then reverse just to be sure

For the rest i am only going off people i personally know (my youngest is a nurse and seems to back up what i hear), i can't speak for everyone in 70ml people so wonder what gets the headlines, the thousands that things go as normal for or the odd one that get's the **** end (as has always happened).
Headlines are always made from shock news never normal life.