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Boris...

  • should completely lock us down immediately and fook up all our Christmas'

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • let the bodies stack high

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • lock us down from the 29th to fook up Treble's plans

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Total voters
    24
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Diego said:
We most certainly shouldn't have been, two weeks of dithering ****ed us up big style.
That said, why do some blindly believe every other country's figures but doubt our own?
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I actually don't blindly follow or believe anyone's figures. In my mind there are two categories.

The first group are those who I don't trust at all so I ignore them always. Never quote them or include them in my comparisons. And where they crop up (like Russia or China) I'll gladly include them as probably one of the worst in reality.

The second are the ones most would think are countries likely to be reliable in their intent but will invariably have room for error. For those, I think the variables are not significant enough to make a difference. So for example, when France is reporting about 24k deaths, any variable won't be enough to make it much different to our range so I'd compare that to us and always have. But Canada reporting about 3400 is not going to have enough of a variable to come anywhere close to us. Expanding that with other countries e.g. Spain, Italy, Portugal, Germany, U.S, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand is a reasonable position to hold without having to worry about absolute accuracy of figures when making comparisons between countries or groups of countries.
 
Treble said:
I actually don't blindly follow or believe anyone's figures. In my mind there are two categories.

The first group are those who I don't trust at all so I ignore them always. Never quote them or include them in my comparisons. And where they crop up (like Russia or China) I'll gladly include them as probably one of the worst in reality.

The second are the ones most would think are countries likely to be reliable in their intent but will invariably have room for error. For those, I think the variables are not significant enough to make a difference. So for example, when France is reporting about 24k deaths, any variable won't be enough to make it much different to our range so I'd compare that to us and always have. But Canada reporting about 3400 is not going to have enough of a variable to come anywhere close to us. Expanding that with other countries e.g. Spain, Italy, Portugal, Germany, U.S, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand is a reasonable position to hold without having to worry about absolute accuracy of figures when making comparisons between countries or groups of countries.
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Which is why i used the word "some" in my comment :emoticon-0100-smile

As has been said on here many times, the best way of gauging this is the 5 year average once the crisis is over. My point was aimed at others who are gleefully taking everything other countries quote as gospel and laughing at ours.
 
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Diego said:
Which is why i used the word "some" in my comment :emoticon-0100-smile

As has been said on here many times, the best way of gauging this is the 5 year average once the crisis is over. My point was aimed at others who are gleefully taking everything other countries quote as gospel and laughing at ours.
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Honest question, lets say we do that. A year from now we come to the conclusion that on average an extra 8000 a month died (just an example) to the 5 year average, what will we do with that?

A year after the end of the military action in the gulf war we confirmed there were no WMDs. A year after the credit crunch we confirmed it was the corrupt banking system that was at fault. Years after, we discover British black people who have lived and worked here were deported unfairly.

After the event whatever the findings, everyone knows nobody gives enough of a **** to hold anyone accountable.
 
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Treble said:
Honest question, lets say we do that. A year from now we come to the conclusion that on average an extra 8000 a month died (just an example) to the 5 year average, what will we do with that?

A year after the end of the military action in the gulf war we confirmed there were no WMDs. A year after the credit crunch we confirmed it was the corrupt banking system that was at fault. Years after, we discover British black people who have lived and worked here were deported unfairly.

After the event whatever the findings, everyone knows nobody gives enough of a **** to hold anyone accountable.
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Totally agree, but some will call it a win for others.

There are many, many things to take into account with something like this, how things are recorded, the standing health of victims, life styles and diet etc etc.

This is not a case of win or lose, we/the affected are all losers.
 
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Diego said:
Totally agree, but some will call it a win for others.

There are many, many things to take into account with something like this, how things are recorded, the standing health of victims, life styles and diet etc etc.

This is not a case of win or lose, we/the affected are all losers.
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True, but the whole notion of it, whether it's this or the examples I gave earlier, are the closest to what I consider as "the establishment" (if there is such a thing) always screwing the country. Either deliberately or through its incompetence. So yeh we are all losers, but only because we always continue to allow it.
 
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Treble said:
True, but the whole notion of it, whether it's this or the examples I gave earlier, are the closest to what I consider as "the establishment" (if there is such a thing) always screwing the country. Either deliberately or through its incompetence. So yeh we are all losers, but only because we always continue to allow it.
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You do know that deaths can't be recorded until they have been passed through the office of hatched,matched and dispatched?

Some things take a little time which is why the ONS is more accurate (3 days behind daily figures when posted).
And i still have doubts about "COVID related" as a factual thing.
 
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Diego said:
You do know that deaths can't be recorded until they have been passed through the office of hatched,matched and dispatched?

Some things take a little time which is why the ONS is more accurate (3 days behind daily figures when posted).
And i still have doubts about "COVID related" as a factual thing.
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Tue again, but even with the 11 day delay we have a pretty accurate picture developing between the 5 year average comparison already tbf. And at the risk of going round in circles, so does the comparisons with other countries. I do accept though that there is a grey area with how deaths with CV are reported. But then who's decision was it to report it like that?
 
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Spurlock said:
As soon as The Dude mentions his sources...he’s got no chance

I think the mockery triggers the defensive response...it’s not all on the Dude.
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Yeh and I think that's made him become a bit short with others who sometimes just want to criticise his beliefs fairly.
 
Treble said:
Tue again, but even with the 11 day delay we have a pretty accurate picture developing between the 5 year average comparison already tbf. And at the risk of going round in circles, so does the comparisons with other countries. I do accept though that there is a grey area with how deaths with CV are reported. But then who's decision was it to report it like that?
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GTBH i haven't seen any 5 year average for other countries.
I just get pissed of with some peoples (not yours) attitude that everything the UK does is wrong, easy to criticise and say how others have done in retrospect but perhaps a little harder to do in real time whilst following expert advice.
like i said, we ****ed up in the first two weeks. Let's hope the Germans aren't ****ing up now.
 
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Diego said:
GTBH i haven't seen any 5 year average for other countries.
I just get pissed of with some peoples (not yours) attitude that everything the UK does is wrong, easy to criticise and say how others have done in retrospect but perhaps a little harder to do in real time whilst following expert advice.
like i said, we ****ed up in the first two weeks. Let's hope the Germans aren't ****ing up now.
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I think we're seeing a lot of ordinary people doing extraordinary things in this country at a very difficult time. That's the part of the country I think is doing the UK proud. There are lots of positives to be had from the frontline workers whether its the nurses doing 14 hour shifts or the delivery drivers on the road right now and stockroom staff keeping the people fed and their arses clean. Maybe I am guilty of holding a low opinion of the government, but I would do that absolutely if the actions and decision making and the bullshit rhetoric was the same whatever the party was in charge. Like I said, I think two of the examples I gave earlier were when it was a different party in charge. I'm not so sure those who defend everything the government are doing (not directed at you) would be doing that if it was a different party in charge.
 
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