Off Topic Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Sooperhoop, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    if its the choice between the full blown virus or an easier illness if you catch it after having the experimental vaccine then the vaccine with all its risks is probably the way to go
    we bought 10 million Pfizer ones
    don't know of any side effects to that one
    slow roll out here
    might get mine sometime this decade
     
    #17581
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  2. mapleranger

    mapleranger Well-Known Member

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    Well Kiwi, I had the Pfizer jab a week ago and my only side effect was a slight irritation at the site of the jab and that went away after 2 days - I have not heard much about serious side effects after Pfizer either. I hope I don't have a surprise brewing in there
     
    #17582
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  3. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    #17583
  4. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    Glad you got sorted Maple.

    If you got the Pfizer jab, just remember that it was exported to Canada from the EU.
     
    #17584
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  5. Wherever

    Wherever Well-Known Member

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    Since having my first jab QPR have jumped to 8th
     
    #17585
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  6. SW Ranger

    SW Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Best you delay your second jab ‘til the start of next season in that case wherever :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #17586
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  7. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Anaphylactic shock seems the most frequent, 268 reported cases post Pfizer jab in the U.K.

    Here is a 76 page list of other recorded adverse events post the Pfizer jab, just for the U.K. Of course the events are not necessarily linked in any way to the vaccine.
    https://assets.publishing.service.g...NA_Pfizer-BioNTech_vaccine_analysis_print.pdf
    Risk of CVST from the AZ vaccine - 5 in a million
    Risk of CVST from catching COVID - 39 in a million
    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk...s-covid-19-compared-with-vaccines-2021-04-15/
    so, all those countries which have banned or restricted use of the vaccine have not only wilfully allowed more of their population to contract and die from COVID from its usual course of disease, but have also exposed them to an eight times greater risk of potentially fatal rare blood clots. Also they have damaged their economies more because they can’t raise restrictions while so few of their population are vaccinated, and their willingness to encourage vaccine anxiety will extend this. I think this is possibly a criminal offence, but of course they will get away with it because there are so many gullible people who read a headline and don’t understand, or can’t be arsed to understand, what lies behind it.
     
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  8. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    It was exported by an American company using technology from a German company to manufacture a vaccine in a country which happens to be a member of EU. The EU is trying to restrict exports of vaccines from its member states. Canadians and Australians have nothing to thank the EU for regarding vaccines. The citizens of the EU have nothing to thank the EU for regarding vaccines.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  9. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12
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    This morning Dr Jeremy Farrar declared the disease endemic, meaning we have to learn to live with it. It is not going away.
    Welcome to constant social distancing and mask wearing and regular vaccinations.

    I am not sure we could ever have prevented this, but the UK have not really done much to try
     
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  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    It can be endemic but less serious, can’t it? More like flu? Lots of infections, but only the vulnerable need vaccinating? At current levels COVID is no longer the leading cause of death in this country, second to dementia, despite the large number of people with dementia who have died of covid related illnesses in the last year.

    If this is maintained, particularly low levels of hospitalisation, after the next two stages of raising restrictions, I think that’s liveable. A bit of relative risk comparative work might make us more relaxed about it. Though the biggest worry will remain what is happening elsewhere in the world, variants etc.

    We live with lots of endemic diseases, and lots of chronic non virus diseases.
     
    #17590
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  11. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

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    Your numbers on risk of CVST from AZ vaccine maybe valid for the UK, though I have seen a Norwegian responsible for medicines and vaccines reported as saying the UK has had a number of serious cases of CVST from taking the AZ vaccine, after what they reported when they stopped giving the under 30's year olds the AZ vaccine a few weeks back, and the UK's risk evaluation then.

    But in Norway they had at least 5 fatal cases of CVST related to AZ vaccine, and other serious CVST cases, from about 130 thousand people vaccinated with AZ, so near 1 in every 25 thousand. When the Country has relatively low deaths from Covid, 736 as of today I see reported, it's not a given that giving AZ vaccine is worth the risk, especially when other vaccines are available.

    The Norwegian Health Department evidently do not think it's worth the risk, but the Government have asked a group of other experts to evaluate it by 10 May, and the AZ vaccine remains on hold at least until then. I think they also hope to have more clarity on whether some age groups/ gender are more at risk than others. Denmark have evidently found it not worth the risk so have stopped it.

    You talk of criminality. Surely it is criminal not to properly inform people of the risks of taking a vaccine, and also not to properly evaluate the benefits/ risks of a vaccine before vaccinating your population with it. I'm happy where this information is given, and that proper evaluations are done. Seems like Johnson and Johnson agree.
     
    #17591
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  12. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12
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    Absolutely true Stan. But just like flu we will be given dire warnings each autumn.
    We will have a race memory of lockdown for a long time.

    We will not treat the outside world in quite the same way. I think the world has changed....and maybe some of it is good

    Working from home, more sustainable travel, more social grace, more pleasure in the small things in life
     
    #17592
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  13. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    It was jointly developed by an American company and a German company. It was manufactured in Belgium and Holland under an EU export license.

    Citizens of Oz and Canada would have had far less vaccine except for EU exporting it to them. They will be a long time waiting on the UK to assist them with vaccines thats for sure. Hopefully they and Maple in particular remember that.

    Just to add, all goods manufactured in the EU and exported from EU countries to non-EU countries are subject to EU laws and customs restrictions on exporting. The EU control whether the goods are authorised to be exported or not, not a joint American/German parent company. If the EU decide to suspend any goods leaving their customs territory, they are perfectly entitled to do so. On that basis, Maple should be thankful to the EU that his particular vaccine was authorised for export.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Blimey Finglas the EU are the saviours! <doh>
     
    #17594
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  15. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    What could the UK have done to prevent covid becoming endemic?
    How about China? Maybe they deserve more of your critic.
     
    #17595
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  16. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    I am sure the people of NZ, Oz and Canada would agree with you Ellers. The US and UK are not exporting vaccine, the EU are they only one's playing ball and supplying other countries (with the exceptions of Russia, China and India) although I think I remember reading that the US gave Canada 1.5m AZ vaccines they didn't want.

    No chance of their "Commonwealth mother country" helping them out is there?
     
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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  17. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12
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    Endemic... that is a whole world problem, we cannot do anything on our own

    We could have done a lot more to protect ourselves in the first instance and a lot more to lead and show other countries

    1`We should have shut our borders IMMEDIATELY, like a few other countries did (Australia/NZ) and I mean shut them CLOSED.
    2. We should have traced and traced RELIGIOUSLY, and positive people should have been quarantined.
    (We as an island country had such an opportunity to do that


    The vaccine program could have continued and rolled out as it was ....we would have had so many less deaths, and so much less on at least our internal economy.

    We missed a huge opportunity.
    Covid would always become endemic, after all its benign cousin the common cold is, but we could have done so so much more to lead, to prevent our terrible death toll....and to protect our economy.

    We have had all these arguments before

    I have 99 problems with this government (but the vaccine roll out is not one)
     
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  18. finglasqpr

    finglasqpr Well-Known Member

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    Great post Beth.

    I agree with you.

    Wish we had closed our borders too but the open border with the North made that more complicated. Maybe we could have agreed a joint UK/Ireland approach to protect both island's?
     
    #17598
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  19. qprbeth

    qprbeth Wicked Witch of West12
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    In other news...the ( pharmacy) centre where I work as a Covid Marshall has closed for 3 weeks as we cannot get any vaccine.

    I had a text for my second jab which informs me that it will be at a different site, as my original site is also temporarily closed.
    As predicted we do seem to be in a bit of a vaccine dip, currently.

    With India no longer providing exported doses ( how dare they keep their own produced vaccine) we may have a slow down if rollout.

    We have done very well so far and it shows in our infection rates... hopefully the slow down won't too adversely affect the results
     
    #17599
  20. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what it is that makes Scandinavians, especially Norwegians, so prone to developing these CVSTs versus other populations? And why such a high proportion of them die compared to elsewhere?

    Any side effect that happens in less than 1 in 10,000 doses is classified as ‘very rare’, no one hid information about something that was too unusual to pick up in a trial, and actually much less common than the same condition caused by the virus itself.

    To be honest Ossie, Norway isn’t the first country that first springs to mind on this, as you say it’s death rate is so low that using any vaccine might be considered too risky for it. It’s the larger countries to your south, especially France and Germany, that I’m thinking of. It’s been proven in the U.K. and Israel etc that vaccination both massively cuts deaths and now transmission of the virus. With our fat and unhealthy population and earlier mismanagement of the pandemic the AZ vaccine has enabled us to save thousands of lives, and it would have been the same in other countries where the virus was/is out of control. The AZ vaccine is much more effective for longer than the Pfizer one on a single dose, which has enabled us to delay second doses and get just about half of the population vaccinated, with now 15% fully vaccinated. This was a fluke, we didn’t know it would work when the decision was made and it made me deeply uncomfortable. Had the Pfizer vaccine been available in quantities to enable everyone to get jabbed just as quickly perhaps it would have been preferable for younger people to have got it (as they now are) just for confidence, not for efficacy reasons. The U.K., correctly, prioritised speed and security of supply (as far as possible in these unique circumstances) over price. The EU did a magnificent job of negotiating on price (except with Moderna) and, because they do trade deals with other countries rather than commercial deals with companies, didn’t understand that there are trade offs involved in this. Once their foolishness had been exposed their bizarre response was to moan about supply while simultaneously slagging off efficacy and safety, with the result that people are scared ****less about very little and are more scared of the vaccine than the virus. It will be easily demonstrable that this has cost lives, even with the supply issues the unused doses count into the millions, each one capable of protecting the individual and the population as a whole.
    So the EUs contribution was not to prevent export? And they are entitled to prevent export, but it’s nasty if doses aren’t exported from the U.K. or US? Bring out the flags. There are limited numbers of places in the entire world where the vaccines are made, US, EU, India, Russia and China mostly. At the moment the U.K. manufacturing capacity is 1-2 million doses a week within the country, it’s a drop in the ocean, not enough to meet our own demand. The Pfizer plant in Belgium is designed to deliver to seventy different countries, including the EU countries and the U.K. it’s just a coincidence that it’s in the EU (though would be more understandable if it was in Ireland because of the tax breaks, which that famous Irishman Joe Biden is trying to end), if it was in the U.K. and exporting presumably that would be a win for Johnson.

    Pfizer don’t think so much of the amazing rules and regulations of the EU helping them to export.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pfizer-vaccine-production-eu-covid-b1825355.html
     
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