Off Topic Coronavirus

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I went on my daily walk today to the local Recreation Ground, it's a small parkland area with a couple of football pitches in the middle and a walkway around the perimeter along which there are various types of exercise equipment at intervals. I have to say what really pisses me off are how people using this area just don't give a sh*t about messing the place up. Empty drinks bottles and cans, discarded sweet and crisp packets, discarded bio-wipes which they use to wipe the equipment before they use it and lots of blue or white latex gloves just left lying around. There are large litter bins at regular intervals but hey, let someone else clean up. Quite a few people brought their own fold-up chairs, but none of them would walk 20-30 yards to put their rubbish away.

I'm lucky to have my own garden and there's a couple of other parks nearby but a facility put there for everyone is just abused by the selfish c*nts, is it just South London or are all areas just as bad?...
 
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Sooperhoop said:
I went on my daily walk today to the local Recreation Ground, it's a small parkland area with a couple of football pitches in the middle and a walkway around the perimeter along which there are various types of exercise equipment at intervals. I have to say what really pisses me off are how people using this area just don't give a sh*t about messing the place up. Empty drinks bottles and cans, discarded sweet and crisp packets, discarded bio-wipes which they use to wipe the equipment before they use it and lots of blue or white latex gloves just left lying around. There are large litter bins at regular intervals but hey, let someone else clean up. Quite a few people brought their own fold-up chairs, but none of them would walk 20-30 yards to put their rubbish away.

I'm lucky to have my own garden and there's a couple of other parks nearby but a facility put there for everyone is just abused by the selfish c*nts, is it just South London or are all areas just as bad?...
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I think it's in areas where adults regard government like parents, that have an unlimited duty towards them and to clean all their **** up
 
Woodyhoopleson said:
Not yet, but is that the point?

If he’s credible, which to my untrained eye he seems to be, and he’s got serious doubts about treatment methods, I’d hope there would at least follow some conversation, wouldn’t you?
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Yep, between professionals. If an electrician, with 5-10 years experience and working on a job under huge pressure, posted something on YouTube which challenged all the accepted practice of much more experienced electricians, would you expect a shop assistant to be able to draw useful conclusions from it? Or would you like to hear from a few other electricians first?

This poor lad has probably seen more deaths in a short period of time than he has experienced before. It must hurt like hell to feel helpless in this situation. I note that he doesn’t have a solution or new treatment, just wants less aggressive ventilation. He also says that he has never seen oxygen deprivation along the lines of altitude sickness, but feels that this is what he is dealing with. Lots of questions for doctors to discuss.
 
sb_73 said:
Would you sign a piece of paper saying you would not want to be aggressively ventilated based on what he is saying?

I would, if it was backed up by a proper comparative, blinded clinical trial.
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I have to say, I do not think this guy is not quite up to speed with the current thinkinking...again stop me when I am wrong Stan or Stainsy

But I thought that the current thinking was that many of the deaths (at least those that happen 21 days or so after first appearance of symptoms) are not caused by respiratory symptoms per se, but by the body causing a cytokine storm resulting in multiple organ failure....
So the virus causes a respiratory disease, which 85% of us fight and this is what happens in day 5 (when the symptoms appear) to about day 10-14, when symptoms (cough, breathlessness fever) begin to die down in most cases...thats what happened to Matt Hancock.
However in 15% of people there is a sort of secondary effect, when the body raises a big immunological action, and starts to destroy any organs that the virus has got into, releasing cytokines into the system, destroying lungs/kidneys which causes the body to begin to shut down. In 10% of cases the body realises it has over reacted and pulls back, but in 5% of cases the patients die of organ failure (this is why Boris has gone into hospital, because he has gone onto the second stage).

The ventilation is to keep the lungs working whilst the body is trying to rest control back from itself and from the virus.

I agree with Stans first assessment..he is use to treating flu, pulmonary and respiratory disease.. but I agree with him over the statement that the end point of this disease is different, but I thought that was already an accepted fact
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
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Maybe Sweden would have been better off to have some restrictions in place
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Or it could be exactly what they were expecting as they aim to get 60% of their population infected. They will have more deaths in the short term than countries in lock down, but as long as their health services aren’t overwhelmed, they shouldn’t have more deaths overall and could be in a better position re second waves etc. At least that is the theory.
 
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sb_73 said:
Or it could be exactly what they were expecting as they aim to get 60% of their population infected. They will have more deaths in the short term than countries in lock down, but as long as their health services aren’t overwhelmed, they shouldn’t have more deaths overall and could be in a better position re second waves etc. At least that is the theory.
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If they have a huge number of deaths (mostly old and vulnerable) short term, I doubt their current prime minister will be in office long enough to see the next stage. And it may be, what, 3 years, 5 years before a conclusion is reached.
 
qprbeth said:
I have to say, I do not think this guy is not quite up to speed with the current thinkinking...again stop me when I am wrong Stan or Stainsy

But I thought that the current thinking was that many of the deaths (at least those that happen 21 days or so after first appearance of symptoms) are not caused by respiratory symptoms per se, but by the body causing a cytokine storm resulting in multiple organ failure....
So the virus causes a respiratory disease, which 85% of us fight and this is what happens in day 5 (when the symptoms appear) to about day 10-14, when symptoms (cough, breathlessness fever) begin to die down in most cases...thats what happened to Matt Hancock.
However in 15% of people there is a sort of secondary effect, when the body raises a big immunological action, and starts to destroy any organs that the virus has got into, releasing cytokines into the system, destroying lungs/kidneys which causes the body to begin to shut down. In 10% of cases the body realises it has over reacted and pulls back, but in 5% of cases the patients die of organ failure (this is why Boris has gone into hospital, because he has gone onto the second stage).

The ventilation is to keep the lungs working whilst the body is trying to rest control back from itself and from the virus.

I agree with Stans first assessment..he is use to treating flu, pulmonary and respiratory disease.. but I agree with him over the statement that the end point of this disease is different, but I thought that was already an accepted fact
Click to expand...
I was looking up papers on post mortem results on COVID19 victims, but there is very little out there, and what there is (Chinese stuff mainly) is beyond my comprehension. I have no doubt that this young doctor is sincere, I just suspect that he is overwhelmed, and being of a different generation to me chooses a different way to share this than I would.
 
sb_73 said:
Yep, between professionals. If an electrician, with 5-10 years experience and working on a job under huge pressure, posted something on YouTube which challenged all the accepted practice of much more experienced electricians, would you expect a shop assistant to be able to draw useful conclusions from it? Or would you like to hear from a few other electricians first?

This poor lad has probably seen more deaths in a short period of time than he has experienced before. It must hurt like hell to feel helpless in this situation. I note that he doesn’t have a solution or new treatment, just wants less aggressive ventilation. He also says that he has never seen oxygen deprivation along the lines of altitude sickness, but feels that this is what he is dealing with. Lots of questions for doctors to discuss.
Click to expand...
I get your point, and in answer, I’d listen to the younger electrician, and encourage others to do so too. We don’t do things the same way now as we did when I started 20 years ago. There are regular changes to approved practices.

I didn’t post his video so that we’d suddenly know the answers, but to highlight that there are opinions that perhaps need to become conversations in appropriate fields. It might turn out that he’s on to something.
 
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Stroller said:
Johnson stood up in parliament three weeks ago, possibly more, and said that these tests would be imminently available. After that, we were told again and again that we had ordered 3.5 million of them, and yes, they did sound jolly pleased with themselves.
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Not in my opinion. Trying to give people good news that's all.
The order was provisional assuming they worked. They don't
 
sb_73 said:
I was looking up papers on post mortem results on COVID19 victims, but there is very little out there, and what there is (Chinese stuff mainly) is beyond my comprehension. I have no doubt that this young doctor is sincere, I just suspect that he is overwhelmed, and being of a different generation to me chooses a different way to share this than I would.
Click to expand...
It’s not just on YouTube (YouTube doesn’t equal conspiracy channel, it’s a video platform). I’ll look again later.
 
qprbeth said:
I have to say, I do not think this guy is not quite up to speed with the current thinkinking...again stop me when I am wrong Stan or Stainsy

But I thought that the current thinking was that many of the deaths (at least those that happen 21 days or so after first appearance of symptoms) are not caused by respiratory symptoms per se, but by the body causing a cytokine storm resulting in multiple organ failure....
So the virus causes a respiratory disease, which 85% of us fight and this is what happens in day 5 (when the symptoms appear) to about day 10-14, when symptoms (cough, breathlessness fever) begin to die down in most cases...thats what happened to Matt Hancock.
However in 15% of people there is a sort of secondary effect, when the body raises a big immunological action, and starts to destroy any organs that the virus has got into, releasing cytokines into the system, destroying lungs/kidneys which causes the body to begin to shut down. In 10% of cases the body realises it has over reacted and pulls back, but in 5% of cases the patients die of organ failure (this is why Boris has gone into hospital, because he has gone onto the second stage).

The ventilation is to keep the lungs working whilst the body is trying to rest control back from itself and from the virus.

I agree with Stans first assessment..he is use to treating flu, pulmonary and respiratory disease.. but I agree with him over the statement that the end point of this disease is different, but I thought that was already an accepted fact
Click to expand...
I think Beth ought to be giving us a daily briefing
With a full glossary for idiots like me though
 
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Woodyhoopleson said:
It’s not just on YouTube (YouTube doesn’t equal conspiracy channel, it’s a video platform). I’ll look again later.
Click to expand...
Don’t worry mate, it’s not important. I think we agree fundamentally. In my electrician analogy you would want electricians to discuss it, and I would want doctors to discuss this bloke’s concerns. I wasn’t implying that YouTube is a conspiracy channel, I am sure that there are specialist places for that, just that there is a generational difference in the way people communicate. Us old gits prefer to do stuff face to face.
 
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