Agreed, we do need to vaccinate as many people as possible. But people have also got to realise that others don't want or can't have the jab (be it needlephobe, medic, pure choice or conspiracy loons). We are never going to get a 100% uptake on it, so we need to stop thinking of it as such. I just think that others need to be more respectful of others choice in this. You shouldn't be vilified for choosing not to have it, as I feel a lot of people are doing. Not just on here, but society in general. I get it, you all want everyone vaccinated, but also accept its someone's personal choice. Respect that, and move on.
I don't think you realise just how miserable life was for those of us who were children during the last war and lived through the austerity of the late forties fifties. I don't want your sympathy but you do not know just how hard a time that was. The debt after the war and the reconstruction was horrendous. We have been there done that go the tee shirt. I remember my father butchering an old pair of shoes to resole my school shoes and my mother unpicking old jumpers to use the wool to knit me a jumper for school. She would turn shirt collars to get more wear from them and I would wear my older brothers hand me down clothes. I remember having an old army coat on my bed as an extra blanket in the winter. You'll have no sympathy or concept regarding what life was like then so don't expect me to have sympathy for how hard life is going to be now for everyone.
I absolutely accept that not everyone CAN have the vaccine because of medical or psychological reasons. Doesn’t stop me saying that everyone else SHOULD have the vaccine, not just for their own sake but for the population as a whole. That’s my right too.
I do know more about that than you’d think. But I also think there is a modern day, poverty equivalent going on right under our noses, made far worse but Covid and continued restrictions. I grew up in a poor family, and I remember eating bread covered in mould at times as we didn’t have the money to replace it, and what food we did have went around 6 of us. Many of my evening meals were rice with a tin of tomatoes, and, being the youngest, I had 3 siblings hand me downs to look forward to. And all that aside, we do need to find a way to carry on.
That's fine, then as long as you respect others choice, instead of vilifying them, then there's no problem there.
I admit I overreacted last night to Libby saying he wasn’t going to have the second vaccination, and I apologise for that. I’m still genuinely puzzled by the thought process though, it seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face, and everyone else’s as well. Everyone seems to understand about the herd immunity thing, but there isn’t a magic number of people that is enough to achieve it, there are only theories. Surely it’s best to get as close to 100% as possible, given that a minority have genuine physical or psychological reasons that prevent them having it?
See I still feel weird about this. If someone doesn’t want the vaccine, even if they can as no fear of needles or medical issue etc. For me that is their right. I know someone very close to me who is about 30 and healthy, not overweight at all. They will get the vaccine next year once more research etc had been done on it as they feel it has been rushed (as we all know why) and I totally respect that view. they are not an anti vaccine person at all, don’t influence others not to have it, but I do see their point. They have also fully adhered to the rules for 18 months.
Personally, I'm never going to respect a choice that negatively affects other people and creates more overall harm than good.
Then maybe you should start walking in other people's shoes, and understand why and what has led them to their decision. Just because they've made a choice that's different to yours.
Absolutely, more the better. However the uptake so far has been far greater than anyone has expected so I really don't think we need to worry about the minority who choose not to, or can't take the vaccine, having a great impact on the herd immunity thing.
"Maybe you should read properly old chap." of course I know as well you do. It's not under control, rising infection rates of a virus with increased transmission rates leading to more mutations resistant to vaccines. "people like you" what am I like, what sacrifices have me and my family made, what lives lost cut short directly or indirectly? "people like me" there's ****ing millions worldwide. So it is, well done Billy that's what people like you are like. But something you fail to grasp is that we pensioners have friends and family we've lost and and been separated from and are just as frustrated. Of course we're paying to in reduced benefits and an under funded and under resourced NHS.
My decision to take the vaccine is directly from walking in other peoples shoes. weighing how much each course affects other people. If the vaccine just affected the person taking it I wouldn't care. But in my opinion by deciding not to take the vaccine when you don't have a good reason to do so, you are not respecting the choice of the majority of people who are trying to protect themselves by exposing them to greater harm. and you are not respecting the choice of the people who want to leave lockdown earlier by delaying it. It does seem people who don't take the vaccine simply don't believe they are hurting other people though. So in those cases i can understand the decision and will try to convince them otherwise as i don't agree with it which is different to not respecting them. It just annoys me that people seem to think this is an individual decision when it clearly affects us as a community. The only chance we have to stop this virus is if we act as a community rather than individuals. I admit the chance is smaller now, but most variants still seem to be affected by the vaccine so I still think its possible to stop it, like the original SARS virus, if we can keep the amount of virus, and therefore the number of mutations, low.
I’ve been avoiding this discussion, much like the politics thread. But, saying that, I worry about people thinking that this is about death/not death. I know a couple of friends of friends who have lost people to this, but I know many, directly, that now have long Covid, between 30-50 years of age. You really, really don’t want that, going by their experiences.
Large over crowded populations, bacteria resistance, environmental changes, all make the possibility of a new pandemic in the next 25 years increase - so we have to learn the lessons from this. If we don't, and are not prepared to work as a (wordwide) community then it will only get worse. I can easily imagine a world where vaccination will be for the rich and those who are not vaccinated will really have their rights removed - I am not talking about nightclubs, but access to hospitals, workspaces, travel. In a way we we have been lucky - the vaccines were produced relatively quickly - there is no guarantee the next one will be.
