1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football thread

Discussion in 'Watford' started by andytoprankin, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    please log in to view this image


    Has the Telegraph really sunk to this level? I doubt that any of his family have been caught up in it.
     
    #1501
  2. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    35,252
    Likes Received:
    13,974
    A long disturbing read this - a sorry tale of government incompetence/intransigence.

    "According to several care home managers, a key route for infection was opened up by an NHS decision taken in mid-March, as Britain geared up for the pandemic, to transfer 15,000 patients out of hospitals and back into the community, including an unspecified number of patients to care homes. These were not only patients from general wards. They included some who had tested positive for COVID-19, but were judged better cared for outside hospital."

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-h...eft-many-of-the-weakest-exposed-idUKKBN22H2EI
     
    #1502
  3. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    It is very sad indeed to keep reading day after day reports of government failures, not just in recent months either. The last Health Secretary Hunt has said that when he was in office and read about the shortages of equipment and facilities in the hospitals and care homes he pleaded for more money to upgrade the stocks, but it was refused. Now maybe he is just trying to cover his back, but he admits that there was and has been a lack of investment for years. There is a constant mantra about following scientific advice, but we can see that the givers of that advice are becoming more and more vocal about the way that the advice is being hidden. Why is the advice hidden? One can only assume because it is not being acted on.
     
    #1503
  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    Most countries who had not experienced the full effect of the previous epidemics were ill prepared for this level of a full pandemic.

    In addition there has been a breakdown in the normal well established supply chains of PPE equipment coming from other parts of the world. Firstly the Saudis stopped the exportation of their oil based raw material, ie, polypropylene, to make drapes and gowns. Secondly the Chinese temporarily stopped allowing exportation of finished PPE goods. Thirdly, when the threat had passed in China, usual suppliers, in which trust had been built up over 20 years took a short term decision to divert UK bound stock to the highest bidder. My daughter had to pay 46% extra to prevent her own stock orders being shipped to the US. This short term gain by the once reliable Chinese partners has wrecked their previous monopoly of PPE manufacture. Many European countries are now setting up permanent long term factories to ensure supply in the future.
    The industry is highly regulated with very strict controls on quality. Those that criticised the UK government for not taking up offers from the many spiv suppliers now see the result of useless PPE equipmen, made in Turkey, which was not produced to the required standard.

    After this dreadful experience no government is likely to be unprepared in future. There will be a drastic reduction in the reliance of long supply chains especially those which are subject to political interference by selfish foreign governments.

    China will rightly be seen as a dangerous, hostile nation who has no qualms about using any means, legal or not, to further itself. Hopefully the UK government will see sense and end any chance of Huawei being involved with the UK's 5G supply, the Chinese cannot be trusted.
     
    #1504
  5. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    You might be describing what has happened globally, but in the UK on the 26th March this statement was made. “The country has a perfectly adequate supply of PPE,” says Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jenny Harries, stating that supply issues have been "completely resolved".

    You say that China cannot be trusted, but a looking at this statement from a government employee, I would say that can be applied to the hopeless shambles seen since the start of the year.
     
    #1505
  6. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    At that time it was reasonable to expect normal PPE supply chains to operate as in the past. The reasons given above explain why normal supplies failed to materialise. Shortages were experienced in most European countries with the exception of Germany who have their own major suppliers such as 3M and Molnlycke. Germany refused to share these when requested by other desperate EU members. Apart from the tragic death toll around the world there will be huge political ramifications from the lack of cooperation between nations.
     
    #1506
  7. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    You have shown how the USA looks after number 1, but still with the most bizarre policies has the highest death rate in the world. Just look at the timeline of what happened in the UK and the equally bizarre policies, and it is little wonder that the country has the second highest death rate. March 19th: A Government diktat tells NHS hospitals to move elderly patients into care homes even if they have Covid-19. A Whitehall official will later state that the policy was designed as a “stiff broom” to free up capacity in hospitals. The policy is blamed for a later explosion of cases in care homes. (Telegraph)
    Although other countries have had to fight their own battles, it is hard to find anywhere else that has handled the situation so badly as the USA and UK.
     
    #1507
  8. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    It is not reliable or sensible to compare death numbers with other nations unless all circumstances are taken into account. Apparently Belgium has the worst per 100,000. This is because they are accurately counting the Covid victims unlike most other nations that leave huge numbers off their lists.

    I'm sure when the pandemic is over all national governments will reflect on their actions and whether the medical advice received at the time was indeed the best available. Nations which suffered previous epidemics certainly have performed better this time by using their past experience.

    Much of the criticism aimed at the UK government is politically motivated, thankfully the UK public see this as opportunism which they just ignore. It is good the UK government now have an opposition leader with more than half a brain. Starmer will rightly ask challenging questions to keep the government on its toes.
     
    #1508
  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    Sorry I do not buy into this we don't wish to be held to account now, let's talk about it years down the line. The quote that I gave from the Telegraph, (politically motivated?) shows what an appalling attitude to the elderly people they are supposed to look after this government has. If you were a care home provider and carried out that sort of policy by passing on your dangerously ill to other care homes, you would finish up in court on manslaughet charges.
     
    #1509
  10. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    14,952
    Likes Received:
    4,851
    You were quite happy to compare death numbers in the past SH. Quote ''Thankfully we do not have the same numbers dying as in other European countries'' - now you apparently don't want to compare these figures any longer ! Hardly surprising really.
     
    #1510

  11. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    The UK public realise the government are in a very difficult position and they have to rely on medical advice from senior medical advisers. Recent polls put the Tories a long way ahead even from its stunning victory a few months ago. By the time of the next election I doubt Covid 19 will be one of the defining issues.

    It is right that a variety of ideas are fully debated, there are certainly differing views from around the world.
     
    #1511
  12. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    Simply comparing totals mean nothing unless you look at all the factors.
     
    #1512
  13. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    14,952
    Likes Received:
    4,851
    But you were prepared to do it then !
     
    #1513
  14. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    You are being very disingenuous saying that the government relies on the advice given by the experts. As stated by those very same experts the government is given options, then chooses depending on what they have available. Hunt gave the game away by saying that the government had deliberately not renewed stocks of PPE despite expert advice that they should. February 29th: In 2019, the Government's own National Security Risk Assessment warned of the severe risk from a coronavirus pandemic. Yet the Government failed to heed even basic recommended preparations. Instead, Brexit preparations took priority over training key workers for a pandemic, and emergency PPE stockpiles had severely dwindled or gone out of date following years of austerity cuts. (Sunday Times) That choice, and others since have resulted in the loss of many lives.
     
    #1514
  15. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    Most countries in Europe lacked the necessary preparation, there were problems in France, Spain and Italy, countries previously known for the quality of their respective healthcare provisions. Your negative, politically motivated and selective criticism of the UK government produces limited interest, solely regurgitated for Guardian reader types.
     
    #1515
  16. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    Did your government take notice of the expert opinion given to them to increase their preparations for a possible pandemic? Yes or No? If they did perhaps you can quote what they did.
     
    #1516
  17. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    It appears most countries failed to heed advice to better prepare for pandemics, including where you live. I'm sure it will not happen again.

    As reported in the Telegraph last week my daughter's company was already planning to set up large scale production of respirators and facemasks in the Midlands before the pandemic. 60 million earloop type facemasks a month is the aim. This is possible because the manufacture is automated. Volume drape and gown production may be more difficult to bring home as it relies on lots of affordable labour. There are alternatives to China, which undoubtedly will be used in future.

    Although state aid laws are now conveniently forgotten in the EU, Brexit will allow the NHS / UK government to fully promote and allocate long term contracts to reliable UK businesses to help secure future supplies without the previous hassle of European tender rules.
     
    #1517
  18. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    So they didn't do anything despite the expert advice. That is negligence to protect the people.
     
    #1518
  19. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,075
    Likes Received:
    867
    Clearly the UK were just as unprepared as most countries and also suffered the unforeseen break down in the usual supply chains. Questions will be asked in all countries.
     
    #1519
  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41,770
    Likes Received:
    14,245
    Despite other countries having supply problems with equipment, they took action to lock down the population. March 3rd: "I’m shaking hands continuously, I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you’ll be pleased to know. I continue to shake hands..." He adds: "I want to stress that for the vast majority of the people of this country, we should be going about our business as usual." March 12th: UK Government sharply departs from the testing course of action adopted by Germany and South Korea. At this point the UK has seen 10 deaths and 590 confirmed cases. “If we hadn’t stopped it on 12 March, our epidemic would have been much less,” professor of global health Anthony Costello will later say. Johnson and government policy has cost lives.
     
    #1520

Share This Page