After watching the race again i have came to the simple conclusion that Tom Quelly went for home about a furlong to soon, Midday easily had SNA cooked about the 2 furlong and 1 furlong marker but unfortunately they are not where the race finishes. If these two meet again i know who i would have my cash on and i think Cecil will surely not be too disheartened.
Coronation Cup
- Thread starter Hardy Eustace
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
In some regards Hardy, I can see where you are coming from. If the mare had been held a bit longer, she may not have hit the wall in the last half furlong. Still. St Nicholas Abbey was all over the place in the straight. It was only the last furlong that he found his feet. So I think all things being equal, the better horse won on the day. Seriously though Hardy, I can't really see Midday beating him home any time in the near future.
I have a "wall wall" I can't edit.
I have a "wall wall" I can't edit.I don't believe Midday truly stays a stiff 1m4f in top company. I think her optimum trip is 1m2f as she has proved time and time again. Over the 1m4f distance I would fancy SNA every time. He clearly didn't handle the track but still outdid her for stamina in the closing stages regardless of the viewpoint that Queally went for home too soon. Midday traded at 1.01 in play but just didn't get home. Wouldn't mind SNA getting targetted at next season's Gold Cup as Coolmoore will need a representative when *** gets swamped in a couple of weeks.
i can understand if you just watched this race without any prior knowledge of the horses that you would think queally went too soon and should of done better,but i think he rode a good race.
go back to middays york run against sariska,sariska made all and quickened away from her in a 4 runner race.since then she as ran in bigger fields and won all her starts coming into this bar her 2nd in the breeders cup.that day she earned the formbook comments "unable to quicken".us turf racing around those tight bends would not of generated the better pace she needs.
in contrast,SNA when he came of the last bed at chester,simply flew home for a easy 9l win to draw away by that distance with only a furlong to go shows what amazing quickening speed he as.
then we come to this race,the last thing queally wanted is a sprint finish with SNA.i thought with 5 runners,it will simply be a 2-3 furlong sprint with SNA winning.
the pace was not great.4 horses were held up types and only dandino had raced prominently recently and it was him who had to make the running.both SNA and indian days were running keen,and unless there chronic pullers which either arent ,its a sure indication that they wanted to go faster early on.
queally knowing this,decided to make his move first.he also cheekily checked SNA in the process,to try and stop his momentum and it did look like a winning move.however,once switched ,he simply showed that amazing quickening speed once again,and from been a few lengths down furlong to go,won in the end by a length.
at the end of the day ,everything was in SNA favour.small field which resulted in a sprint finish and SNA had the best quickening ability in such circumstances .aiden o brien ran no pacemaker as well which is unusual for him to do so in a group 1 middle distance event.
in hindsight ,cecil could of ran a pacemaker to help,but it would of probably been ignored anyway.
so all in all,queally lost by 1 length ,if it was simple dual 2-3 furlongs from home i think it could of been a lot worse so think he rode a brave race to do what he did on a horse with inferior quickening speed.
midday will do better in decent size fields with a better pace in future.theres no reason why she cant do well in the races she ran in last year against her own sex.
SNA as to be nailed on for the breeders cup turf.he as shown when coming of a bend he can move so quickly to put the race to bed.the arc as been strongly run in last few years and dont think that race will suit him.
go back to middays york run against sariska,sariska made all and quickened away from her in a 4 runner race.since then she as ran in bigger fields and won all her starts coming into this bar her 2nd in the breeders cup.that day she earned the formbook comments "unable to quicken".us turf racing around those tight bends would not of generated the better pace she needs.
in contrast,SNA when he came of the last bed at chester,simply flew home for a easy 9l win to draw away by that distance with only a furlong to go shows what amazing quickening speed he as.
then we come to this race,the last thing queally wanted is a sprint finish with SNA.i thought with 5 runners,it will simply be a 2-3 furlong sprint with SNA winning.
the pace was not great.4 horses were held up types and only dandino had raced prominently recently and it was him who had to make the running.both SNA and indian days were running keen,and unless there chronic pullers which either arent ,its a sure indication that they wanted to go faster early on.
queally knowing this,decided to make his move first.he also cheekily checked SNA in the process,to try and stop his momentum and it did look like a winning move.however,once switched ,he simply showed that amazing quickening speed once again,and from been a few lengths down furlong to go,won in the end by a length.
at the end of the day ,everything was in SNA favour.small field which resulted in a sprint finish and SNA had the best quickening ability in such circumstances .aiden o brien ran no pacemaker as well which is unusual for him to do so in a group 1 middle distance event.
in hindsight ,cecil could of ran a pacemaker to help,but it would of probably been ignored anyway.
so all in all,queally lost by 1 length ,if it was simple dual 2-3 furlongs from home i think it could of been a lot worse so think he rode a brave race to do what he did on a horse with inferior quickening speed.
midday will do better in decent size fields with a better pace in future.theres no reason why she cant do well in the races she ran in last year against her own sex.
SNA as to be nailed on for the breeders cup turf.he as shown when coming of a bend he can move so quickly to put the race to bed.the arc as been strongly run in last few years and dont think that race will suit him.
Interesting views about Midday, for me he went too soon and she displayed the same traits she showed in the Nassau Stakes last season when hitting the front she idled and allowed the others to come back at her. I need to watch the race back but I wonder if the third home Clowance was also gaining on her at the line, which would suggest that it wasn't a great turn of foot by SNA that beat her but rather her inability to carry on when hitting the front earlier than ideal. I don't think the trip is any issue for her, and I also don't think SNA would beat her if they met again.
Its all about opinions but I feel that it was a great ride by Moore and the fact he came at her wider than normal was the reason she didn't pick up once more after he closed on her.
I am not a fan of SNA for another top Group 1 this year, I think the Coolmore gang have better older horses, but I do think he has the hallmarks of being a top class 'Cup' horse, although if they have stud ideas for him he will not go down that route (especially with F&G going that way).
I may be proved wrong!
Its all about opinions but I feel that it was a great ride by Moore and the fact he came at her wider than normal was the reason she didn't pick up once more after he closed on her.
I am not a fan of SNA for another top Group 1 this year, I think the Coolmore gang have better older horses, but I do think he has the hallmarks of being a top class 'Cup' horse, although if they have stud ideas for him he will not go down that route (especially with F&G going that way).
I may be proved wrong!
nass
i did think myself that midday could of idled,also this was SNA first run at epsom,a undulation awkward track so im taking into account also thats why he didnt initially go with midday when she past him and he needed time to find his feet due to the course.midday herself had epsom experience and also at undulating goodwood.
looking back though,she as won races with form comments like "drew clear inside final furlong" "won going away"(that was the nassua stakes you mentioned) dont think she is a idler when you win with comments like that.her hanging may be the reason why see appears to idle.this never happened until last years nassau stakes and again she did it at york straight after and also moved left in this race.when she was inexperienced she had ran at epsom,lingfield and goodwood without hanging so dont know why as a older horse she as starting to do do this.it may just be that the opposition is so much stronger that she tries so hard to respond to the jockeys urging its causing her to hang or move ground.
i feel thought queally was harshly criticised on other forums like facebook and the racing post forum for this ride when if you delve into the past form of midday and SNA,you could understand why he made the first move to try and beat SNA that way.
i did think myself that midday could of idled,also this was SNA first run at epsom,a undulation awkward track so im taking into account also thats why he didnt initially go with midday when she past him and he needed time to find his feet due to the course.midday herself had epsom experience and also at undulating goodwood.
looking back though,she as won races with form comments like "drew clear inside final furlong" "won going away"(that was the nassua stakes you mentioned) dont think she is a idler when you win with comments like that.her hanging may be the reason why see appears to idle.this never happened until last years nassau stakes and again she did it at york straight after and also moved left in this race.when she was inexperienced she had ran at epsom,lingfield and goodwood without hanging so dont know why as a older horse she as starting to do do this.it may just be that the opposition is so much stronger that she tries so hard to respond to the jockeys urging its causing her to hang or move ground.
i feel thought queally was harshly criticised on other forums like facebook and the racing post forum for this ride when if you delve into the past form of midday and SNA,you could understand why he made the first move to try and beat SNA that way.
Interesting comments, however I put to you if you draw the finish line a furlong from home or 1/2 furlong you would still get the "won going away".
She won her race but got mugged on the line when she idled in my opinion, if you watch the Nassau Stakes back she did the same thing, she won the race then idled and then picked up and won it again. The difference in this race was that Moore and SNA came wide and came late, giving her no chance to pick back up.
SNA to me had no excuses, he managed Chester with aplomb and that is as turning and awkward as they come, but he was readily outpaced when they went for home, he then showed good tenacity to stay very strongly and that to me puts him forward as an Irish Leger/Ascot GC winner of the future. If he wasn't able to pick up when asked against Workforce/So You Think/Pour Moi then he wouldn't get back into the race.
Quelly to me has done that at least three times in the past on her, and she has managed to recover the situation just the once (did it at Epsom early in career and also when beaten in Prix D'Opera at Longchamps). She has such a turn of foot that when she gets to the front she normally goes 1 or 2 lengths up, and over just a furlong its always going to be hard to peg her back. Over 2 furlongs good horses can pick up 2 lengths on an idling Midday as SNA proved.
Interesting times ahead with SNA though, lets see if he is the real deal.
She won her race but got mugged on the line when she idled in my opinion, if you watch the Nassau Stakes back she did the same thing, she won the race then idled and then picked up and won it again. The difference in this race was that Moore and SNA came wide and came late, giving her no chance to pick back up.
SNA to me had no excuses, he managed Chester with aplomb and that is as turning and awkward as they come, but he was readily outpaced when they went for home, he then showed good tenacity to stay very strongly and that to me puts him forward as an Irish Leger/Ascot GC winner of the future. If he wasn't able to pick up when asked against Workforce/So You Think/Pour Moi then he wouldn't get back into the race.
Quelly to me has done that at least three times in the past on her, and she has managed to recover the situation just the once (did it at Epsom early in career and also when beaten in Prix D'Opera at Longchamps). She has such a turn of foot that when she gets to the front she normally goes 1 or 2 lengths up, and over just a furlong its always going to be hard to peg her back. Over 2 furlongs good horses can pick up 2 lengths on an idling Midday as SNA proved.
Interesting times ahead with SNA though, lets see if he is the real deal.
interesting comments nass
will need to see SNA again i think to make sure.if he as that unusual ability to quicken of a slow pace and fast pace,hes going to win lots more top races ,but im inclined to think right now that a race like the bc turf is his best chance then any other top middle distance race.
will need to see SNA again i think to make sure.if he as that unusual ability to quicken of a slow pace and fast pace,hes going to win lots more top races ,but im inclined to think right now that a race like the bc turf is his best chance then any other top middle distance race.
I'm a huge fan of Midday but for me she was beat by the better 12f horse. Midday quickened nicely and had SNA done for toe and would certainly have won if it was over her optimum distance of 10f. I don't think she idled in front, I think she stayed on at the same pace whereas SNA took time to get going and eventually collared her in the final furlong going away.....just my take on the race fellas.
Gents, a quick question here, did you watch the race on RUK or the Beeb?
I watched the Beeb but now put on the Sportinglife replay and its a much more interesting review of the race, worth a watch if you get the time.
I watched the Beeb but now put on the Sportinglife replay and its a much more interesting review of the race, worth a watch if you get the time.
Midday would have beaten SNA if she was ridden differently, Queally played his hand to soon which allowed SNA to stay on past her late on, but had she stalked SNA until the final furlong, she would have done him for pace!
I would be interested to see Midday up against him again, as I'm convinced the form can be reversed, particularly if they meet over 10 furlongs
I would be interested to see Midday up against him again, as I'm convinced the form can be reversed, particularly if they meet over 10 furlongs
Dont think Queally had much choice, if something was going well enough to lead him, im sure he would have kept a hold of her for another half furlong but he had to go. Everyone watching and im sure Queally himself, thought she was romping home but she idles in front and St Nic eventually got into gear.
I wouldn't say it was impossible that the form could be turned round in a different race, and on softer ground.
I wouldn't say it was impossible that the form could be turned round in a different race, and on softer ground.
I had a smallish bet on Midday first thing in the morning and then after watching Murtagh's interview on BBC raving about SNA I lumped on SNA, have to admit I thought I had done my dough when Queally let her go. I thought she was going to win good style. It's Midday all day long over 10f but I would back SNA against her over 12f irrespective of the course etc. Queally could change tactics but then again so could Moore or whoever is on board SNA.
What I would say is that I think AOB has a far superior 12f horse in his yard.
What I would say is that I think AOB has a far superior 12f horse in his yard.
eddieveeee, softer ground would not necessarily inconvenience St Nicholas Abbey.
I think Tom Queally was placed in a no-win situation because of the small field in what was ostensibly a match on form. What helped the winner and possibly hindered the runner-up was that Ryan Moore’s mount clearly did not handle the course and once he had got him balanced he came sufficiently wide of the mare that she was not able to engage her rival in a battle.
I do not see any prospect of the pair meeting over ten furlongs as I do not envisage St Nicholas Abbey dropping back in trip and I do not think that ten furlongs is Midday’s optimum trip. She was beaten in a photo finish over course and distance in the Oaks by Sariska and she has Group 1 wins on her record over a mile and a half.
As Khalid Abdulla has Workforce to place over middle distances as well, I think Midday may well target races like the Yorkshire Oaks and the Prix Vermeille against her own sex.
I think Tom Queally was placed in a no-win situation because of the small field in what was ostensibly a match on form. What helped the winner and possibly hindered the runner-up was that Ryan Moore’s mount clearly did not handle the course and once he had got him balanced he came sufficiently wide of the mare that she was not able to engage her rival in a battle.
I do not see any prospect of the pair meeting over ten furlongs as I do not envisage St Nicholas Abbey dropping back in trip and I do not think that ten furlongs is Midday’s optimum trip. She was beaten in a photo finish over course and distance in the Oaks by Sariska and she has Group 1 wins on her record over a mile and a half.
As Khalid Abdulla has Workforce to place over middle distances as well, I think Midday may well target races like the Yorkshire Oaks and the Prix Vermeille against her own sex.
Thought Queally was bang on! He went early as he had to and did have SNA floundering in the straight.
SNA got his rhythm close to home and his stamina got him home.
Better horse won - I'd backed Midday and she was done fair and square!
SNA got his rhythm close to home and his stamina got him home.
Better horse won - I'd backed Midday and she was done fair and square!