Conte really is making a big difference, Jose is not.

[Chelsea Pensioner]

Like many others, I had my doubts about Conte, though I guess that would have applied to almost anyone. Jose has been the master tactician, had got performances out of players that had not been performing, and won trophies he had no right to win. Then everything went quickly pear shaped. His "loyal "players were suddenly grumpy, his tactics didn't work any more, the harder he tried the worse things got. That happens to everyone sometime in their career, whatever they do. But Jose didn't put his head down and his bum up, and work through it, instead he got snarly, lost his sense of humour, blamed everyone and everything for the results, but changed nothing, not even the lineup.
In retrospect, I thing we were seeing a manager with nothing more to give.
I am now firmly of the opinion that Joses' best work is behind him. As a Manager, he has not been able to adapt, change and grow, as the game and opposition around him has changed. It's just more of the same. It worked in the past, but it is not working into the future.
Perhaps he was an early winner, like Ricky Gervais, whose first work, "The Office" was brilliant, but whose subsequent work has fallen well short of those standards.
I now truly believe Jose is in that category, and that we have all seen the best of him, fortunately winning titles for Chelsea. Unless he has an epiphany, and makes huge changes to his psyche, I can't see him in the winners circle again, and I am not enjoying seeing him on the slide and becoming ever more bitter.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

100% agree.

Jose's style and approach is fast looking dated. Problem for him, is he is at a club now that is used to winning, and used to winning with some style.

 

[bluemoon2]

I have to agree. There seems to be a definite sign that he has not settled in Manchester. He was worshipped at the Bridge until his barmy behaviour with Eva Carniero ,but his credibility has disappeared down the plug hole since and everyone knows it.

 

[BobbyD]

yup, its sad to see joses fall from grace but i hope he recovers. Unfortunately, i can't see it as with what you two have said. He's not been adaptable, he's kept with his same tried and tested tactics throughout his careers and unfortunaely, he's built this reputation of someone not lasting the distance which i think is affecting him.

Along with that he used to command respect from everyone but his recently antics and the way he's been alienating people in the game is really coming to bite him.

Conte has shown he's happy to build the team up with what he thinks is best and it's great seeing him blood the youngsters. I'm genuinely thrilled to have him and he's done well wherever he has been.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

yup, its sad to see joses fall from grace but i hope he recovers. Unfortunately, i can't see it as with what you two have said. He's not been adaptable, he's kept with his same tried and tested tactics throughout his careers and unfortunaely, he's built this reputation of someone not lasting the distance which i think is affecting him.

Along with that he used to command respect from everyone but his recently antics and the way he's been alienating people in the game is really coming to bite him.

Conte has shown he's happy to build the team up with what he thinks is best and it's great seeing him blood the youngsters. I'm genuinely thrilled to have him and he's done well wherever he has been.

I always thought the United job was a bit of a hiding to nothing really. Our league is so competitive it was always going to be hard to turn United round quickly, even with all the money. Plus his style does not fit in with 'the United way'. Even when he's winning it's dross a lot of the time.

He should have gone to PSG. Much easier job, would have won titles in a new league and had a chance at the C.L as well.

 

[Tibbers]

Carlo Ancelotti backs up Antonio Conte, and I guess fans just need to be patient like what he said.

 

[StanDMan]

with Jose - it was always going to be like your feeling for your Ex.
If they do very well - you won't be too happy.
If they struggle you are going to feel miserable.

Having said that - I don't want to jump into this wagon - calling Jose is past it.
He is only 6pts away from City.

Long way to go until May 2017 .
Jose will be there about in top 3 come May 2017 and still holds the title advantage over Pep & Klopp.

 

[PattyNchips2]

Jose is burnt out

 

[StanDMan]

Jose is burnt out

not sure..
Obviously he is going through a bad moment in his personal life with his father's health issues from last year.

That type of situation helps no body. it is too soon to jump on 'Jose is Done'.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

You might well be right about this year, but I feel his days as a "super coach" are on the slide, and that it's more to do with his mental state and ego than his abilities. He just doesn't seem to enjoy the job anymore.

with Jose - it was always going to be like your feeling for your Ex.
If they do very well - you won't be too happy.
If they struggle you are going to feel miserable.

Having said that - I don't want to jump into this wagon - calling Jose is past it.
He is only 6pts away from City.

Long way to go until May 2017 .
Jose will be there about in top 3 come May 2017 and still holds the title advantage over Pep & Klopp.

 

[armchairblue]

He's not got the best players in the world anymore,neither has Guardiola.Its that,that they've both lost.

 

[george the blue]

I must be the only one who thinks that Jose still has it!

Last season wasn't just his fault, if we are objective about what happened. The squad was unfit and complacent, the signings he wanted weren't coming in, he overperformed last year and the squad couldn't deal with the extra pressure, he did make mistakes but it wasn't all his fault.

This year he inherited a poor squad and bought a player that doesn't fit in a system.

A great striker with nobody to feed him

And mkhtarian who takes a while to get going.

Give him time, he hasn't got the tools he wants at united. Both technically and mentally, when he gets that squad under control he'll prove us all wrong.

 

[StanDMan]

I must be the only one who thinks that Jose still has it!

Last season wasn't just his fault, if we are objective about what happened. The squad was unfit and complacent, the signings he wanted weren't coming in, he overperformed last year and the squad couldn't deal with the extra pressure, he did make mistakes but it wasn't all his fault.

This year he inherited a poor squad and bought a player that doesn't fit in a system.

A great striker with nobody to feed him

And mkhtarian who takes a while to get going.

Give him time, he hasn't got the tools he wants at united. Both technically and mentally, when he gets that squad under control he'll prove us all wrong.

Aye - he won't prove me wrong and you are not alone.
Still Jose's title. I will accept otherwise if he is more than 9 pts behind come May 1st.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

I must be the only one who thinks that Jose still has it!

Last season wasn't just his fault, if we are objective about what happened. The squad was unfit and complacent, the signings he wanted weren't coming in, he overperformed last year and the squad couldn't deal with the extra pressure, he did make mistakes but it wasn't all his fault.

This year he inherited a poor squad and bought a player that doesn't fit in a system.

A great striker with nobody to feed him

And mkhtarian who takes a while to get going.

Give him time, he hasn't got the tools he wants at united. Both technically and mentally, when he gets that squad under control he'll prove us all wrong.

Hope you're right George, but didn't Jose have the say on all the players that Man U. bought? His whinge to Conte seems to suggest that the "everyones' after me" mentality and grumpiness are still well to the fore of his reactions after bad results.That's his achilles heel BIG time, and it's that bitterness that is causing his slide, in my opinion. As I say, Hope you're right, cause there hasn't been a better Manager in my 46 years of watching Chelsea.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

I must be the only one who thinks that Jose still has it!

Last season wasn't just his fault, if we are objective about what happened. The squad was unfit and complacent, the signings he wanted weren't coming in, he overperformed last year and the squad couldn't deal with the extra pressure, he did make mistakes but it wasn't all his fault.

This year he inherited a poor squad and bought a player that doesn't fit in a system.

A great striker with nobody to feed him

And mkhtarian who takes a while to get going.

Give him time, he hasn't got the tools he wants at united. Both technically and mentally, when he gets that squad under control he'll prove us all wrong.

Wasn't just his fault but he made so many mistakes and errors of judgement last year. The football is pretty dull and I think football has moved on sufficiently now and he's been a little left behind.

Not a bad manager over night but he won't guarantee success like he has before. He's also had 150 million to 'tweak' an already expensive squad.

I'd be amazed if United challenged for the title this year. In fact they are probably odds on to finish outside the top 4.

 

[StanDMan]

Wasn't just his fault but he made so many mistakes and errors of judgement last year. The football is pretty dull and I think football has moved on sufficiently now and he's been a little left behind.

Not a bad manager over night but he won't guarantee success like he has before. He's also had 150 million to 'tweak' an already expensive squad.

I'd be amazed if United challenged for the title this year. In fact they are probably odds on to finish outside the top 4.

Nobody has the intangibles that Jose has. Jose, outside top 4 is a joke.
He is still my favorite for the title.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Nobody has the intangibles that Jose has. Jose, outside top 4 is a joke.
He is still my favorite for the title.

We will see and a long way to go. But their position accurately reflects how good they've been i.e not very. Pretty much every bookie has them as 6th favourite and for good reason.

Last night changes nothing. They beat City's reserves in a comp Pep has no interest in. Jose couldn't afford to lose and it showed in team selection and approach.

What's weird though, is you're giving him more support this year than you gave him last year when he was OUR manager!

 

[Treble]

Like many others, I had my doubts about Conte, though I guess that would have applied to almost anyone. Jose has been the master tactician, had got performances out of players that had not been performing, and won trophies he had no right to win. Then everything went quickly pear shaped. His "loyal "players were suddenly grumpy, his tactics didn't work any more, the harder he tried the worse things got. That happens to everyone sometime in their career, whatever they do. But Jose didn't put his head down and his bum up, and work through it, instead he got snarly, lost his sense of humour, blamed everyone and everything for the results, but changed nothing, not even the lineup.
In retrospect, I thing we were seeing a manager with nothing more to give.
I am now firmly of the opinion that Joses' best work is behind him. As a Manager, he has not been able to adapt, change and grow, as the game and opposition around him has changed. It's just more of the same. It worked in the past, but it is not working into the future.
Perhaps he was an early winner, like Ricky Gervais, whose first work, "The Office" was brilliant, but whose subsequent work has fallen well short of those standards.
I now truly believe Jose is in that category, and that we have all seen the best of him, fortunately winning titles for Chelsea. Unless he has an epiphany, and makes huge changes to his psyche, I can't see him in the winners circle again, and I am not enjoying seeing him on the slide and becoming ever more bitter.

Fair post as always CP, and I know you're giving a genuine opinion. BUT a few things I'd argue but do so while also taking on board some of what you've said.

I think his time abroad has turned his demeanour into something far more cynical and negative. Particularly at Real Madrid where I think he was constantly battling the board, the big name player(s) and the media. I think that became unhealthy and has affected him long term. BUT he DID adapt his style at Real Madrid to match the style and tradition of the club. His only condition was that he built from the back. Once he was allowed to do that, he changed his appproach to a more expansive attacking style to give the fans what they wanted. Despite losing to arguably the best side ever in club football, in the last two years of his tenure, when he played Barca, RM were the better team. They had the measure of Pep's men, but unfortunatley not the personnel. Although iirc he did beat them in two finals and he won the league as well.

Secondly, when appointed at United he was being written off as someone who would never give our academy players a chance (despite the fact he did just that at Real Madrid). And then he proved them wrong by playing Lingard in the Community Shield where he scores the winner. He then continues to play Lingard and Rashford.

Finally - and this is probably the most important point - I would urge you to look at his first season at Inter and then his first season at Real Madrid. I do sometimes get the feeling Chelsea fans' opinion of Jose is really only limited to his time at Chelsea and very few have really followed his managerial career. That's not a wum, but because of this, it doesn't really provide a proper understanding of how he works because when he came to Chelsea in 2004 he hit the ground running and CFC looked devastating. At Inter and RM that was never the case. He was quite content to paddle away in his first season at both those clubs, in order to 1) assess his competition and 2) understand and build the squad and systems at the club he was at. Inter is a good example of that. Despite winning an easy league (where all Inter's competition had either been relegated or were in dire straits due to the corruption scandal) the football they played was booed by the fans and media alike. I remember United played them in the CL and he basically wrote off the tie and we knocked them out comfortably. At RM he was content to let Barca win 5-0 and shrugged his shoulders afterwards at the result. In short, he grows into his clubs and if anything, it shows he does adapt.

You could be right and he could be a spent force, but I'm a little surprised people are writing him off so early at United. I'm happy to see how he develops the club in the months and (hopefully) years ahead. If we haven't seen clear progression in terms of the squad, the performances, the results in a year from now, I'll probably come back and agree with you. But at the moment, everything I've seen from in in his first 3 months, isn't alien to the Mourinho script tbh.

 

[StanDMan]

Last night changes nothing. They beat City's reserves in a comp Pep has no interest in. Jose couldn't afford to lose and it showed in team selection and approach.

I didn't change anything from Day 1 of this season. It is always Jose' title.

Aye - he won't prove me wrong and you are not alone.
Still Jose's title. I will accept otherwise if he is more than 9 pts behind come May 1st.

Read above - My post prior to City game, right after Jose' loss at the Bridge.

What's weird though, is you're giving him more support this year than you gave him last year when he was OUR manager!

He stopped being our manager Day 1 last season. I simply made that common sense observation earlier than most of you.
I don't support him now - I am just making common sense observation yet again - that no one else has his forte in PL

Pep is no better than Conte - just another fish with bigger budget and better players.

 

[StanDMan]

And don't talk about Form.
Based on current form Goons will be 1st with 92 pts & Spuds will be 2nd with 90 pts.
Go Figure.

Daily Star computerized prediction based on current form:

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I think we are worth more points than that.....