Off Topic Congratulations We're Out

[MarkoLUFC]

Exactly.

Bit it can be regenerated, and Brexit is the ideal opportunity.

No it can't, because brexit has just empowered the hard right even more. A Keynesian economy requires a strong left wing government, which we've just guaranteed we won't have by making UKIP look like a party that delivers. The only thing they are delivering is an empowered Tory government that nobody has the balls to get rid of, and more cuts, more thatcherism and more privatisation, because that's what UKIP are really about, because they are a right wing libertarian party.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

I wrote to one of our parliamentary reps a while ago on this subject. The person in question was advocating the acceptance of unlimited migrants into our country, supposed refugees and economic blood suckers, and prattling on about how we should welcome these people into our homes. At the time schools were being closed because of lack of teachers and, of course, financial cut backs. I suggested to the person to whom I was writing, that they close their local primary school and turn it into a migrant half-way house, canvass the surrounding houses about accepting a refugee family into their home until other accommodation could be arranged. Surprisingly, I never received a reply to my suggestion. I don't know if you have the same saying as we have, NIMBY, not in my backyard.

Here's an economic blood sucker for you, the only one with any relevance:

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And you keep buying into his bullshit hook line and sinker while he robs you blind, day after ****ing day with wage repression through destruction of unions and workers rights. Well done. Big **** off round of applause for captain gullible over here.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

I wrote to one of our parliamentary reps a while ago on this subject. The person in question was advocating the acceptance of unlimited migrants into our country, supposed refugees and economic blood suckers, and prattling on about how we should welcome these people into our homes. At the time schools were being closed because of lack of teachers and, of course, financial cut backs. I suggested to the person to whom I was writing, that they close their local primary school and turn it into a migrant half-way house, canvass the surrounding houses about accepting a refugee family into their home until other accommodation could be arranged. Surprisingly, I never received a reply to my suggestion. I don't know if you have the same saying as we have, NIMBY, not in my backyard.

Just for the record, I don't have a problem with concerns about immigration. I have a problem with people who think your solutions will do any more than 3/5s of **** all to sort the economy out. Newsflash genius, your "solutions" are going to do 3/5s of **** all. Who will you blame then? Lefties? Haven't had a left wing government for 40 ****ing years but yeah why not blame lefties next? It's never your fault is it.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

Just for you leftys

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I aren't arsed about a self righteous glow. I'm on minimum wage you small minded arsehole. I give a **** about my future prospects, which amount to **** all while you sit around in the corner of your room cowering in fear over immigrants because the daily express told you they are here to steal jobs when in fact there are no ****ing jobs. Employers hate creating jobs more than anything and you just handed more power to the privatisation obsessed right wing nut cases that want us all to scrap around for the ****ing dog biscuits they throw at us. Well done mate. Big pat on the back. Thanks, dickhead.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

Want to see my impression of a brexiter?

Here it is :

"waaaaaaaaaaah immigrants waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah "

 

[BillysStatue]

FFS ... when I stated anyone wanting Trump as President I was referring to the AMERICAN VOTERS ... if that made any of you feel upset, then I don't understand because you're not voting, or maybe you are ... bottom line is that Trump is dangerous and will be a disaster as President

as for Brexit, the reason Brexiteers in the main voted leave had fcuk all to do with economics, but mostly to do with xenophobia ... there, I said it ... if anyone actually believed the message on the side of the big red bus, well, that is just plain ignorant ... amazing how Farage/Boris/Gove all suddenly had memory loss when questioned about their campaign promises ... all this "let's take our country back" bulltwang was about as hollow as Trump's "build a wall" rhetoric ... take our country back from what?

Polish migration to the UK, for example, has slowed and in fact is starting to reverse because the Polish economy is starting to improve ... yes, the issue of refugees is a massive problem, and world leaders need to firstly fix Syria so that they can then sort out the refugee crisis, and stop calling it a "migrant" crisis ... once the civil war in Syria is ended, surely the vast majority of displaced refugees can be returned to their country

so all this fear about "migrants" flooding the UK and "taking our jobs" is all a nonsense ... I'm all for tough immigration laws and no free passes to come and settle here, but leaving the EU was not actually necessary to achieve this ... the UK threatening to leave would have been good leverage to change immigration rules in our favour ... now that we've gone a hard fcuk off, there is no leverage at the negotiation table, and the EU starts off talks holding the high ground ... this could get ugly, and a Trump win will only add more turbulence that we really don't need

as for who's swinging the biggest dick, it doesn't matter because chances are you're pissing on your shoes


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[Whitejock]

No it can't, because brexit has just empowered the hard right even more. A Keynesian economy requires a strong left wing government, which we've just guaranteed we won't have by making UKIP look like a party that delivers. The only thing they are delivering is an empowered Tory government that nobody has the balls to get rid of, and more cuts, more thatcherism and more privatisation, because that's what UKIP are really about, because they are a right wing libertarian party.

I really don't want to get involved in a scrap here. I'm talking hypotheticals, possibilities & opportunity. I've presented some dialogue opportunities, and I'm bowing out. TBF to myself, I really wasn't sure which way to vote right up to the last minute. I needed data. I got scare stories & guesswork. Having taken a great interest in the Scottish Independence Referendum, I really shouldn't have been surprised.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

FFS ... when I stated anyone wanting Trump as President I was referring to the AMERICAN VOTERS ... if that made any of you feel upset, then I don't understand because you're not voting, or maybe you are ... bottom line is that Trump is dangerous and will be a disaster as President

as for Brexit, the reason Brexiteers in the main voted leave had fcuk all to do with economics, but mostly to do with xenophobia ... there, I said it ... if anyone actually believed the message on the side of the big red bus, well, that is just plain ignorant ... amazing how Farage/Boris/Gove all suddenly had memory loss when questioned about their campaign promises ... all this "let's take our country back" bulltwang was about as hollow as Trump's "build a wall" rhetoric ... take our country back from what?

Polish migration to the UK has slowed and in fact is starting to reverse because the Polish economy is starting to improve ... yes, the issue of refugees is a massive problem, and world leaders need to firstly fix Syria so that they can then sort out the refugee crisis, and stop calling it a "migrant" crisis ... once the civil war in Syria is ended, surely the vast majority of displaced refugees can be returned to their country

so all this fear about "migrants" flooding the UK and "taking our jobs" is all a nonsense ... I'm all for tough immigration laws and no free passes to come and settle here, but leaving the EU was not actually necessary to achieve this ... the UK threatening to leave would have been good leverage to change immigration rules in our favour ... now that we've gone a hard fcuk off, there is no leverage at the negotiation table, and the EU starts off talks holding the high ground ... this could get ugly, and a Trump win will only add more turbulence that we really don't need

as for who's swinging the biggest dick, it doesn't matter because chances are you're pissing on your shoes


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People who voted brexit are the kind of people who rightly lost faith in Labour after the thatcherite warmongering waste of space that is Tony Blair, but lack the mental capacity to work out that Farage is taking them on the exact same ride again.

 

[BillysStatue]

I really don't want to get involved in a scrap here. I'm talking hypotheticals, possibilities & opportunity. I've presented some dialogue opportunities, and I'm bowing out. TBF to myself, I really wasn't sure which way to vote right up to the last minute. I needed data. I got scare stories & guesswork. Having taken a great interest in the Scottish Independence Referendum, I really shouldn't have been surprised.

I love you Jocko [emoji482] always make me smile


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[MarkoLUFC]

I really don't want to get involved in a scrap here. I'm talking hypotheticals, possibilities & opportunity. I've presented some dialogue opportunities, and I'm bowing out. TBF to myself, I really wasn't sure which way to vote right up to the last minute. I needed data. I got scare stories & guesswork. Having taken a great interest in the Scottish Independence Referendum, I really shouldn't have been surprised.

For me it was easy. Labour rights guaranteed by the EU that won't be guaranteed by an obsessively ideological tory government on a crusade against working people. It's really that simple. But I actually listened to Jeremy Corbyn instead of believing the media frenzy bollocks about him being some crazy communist, which I can actually prove that he's not, and thought about it for myself for more than 5 minutes instead of getting caught up in all the complete bollocks that you've rightly identified.

 

[Whitejock]

Want to see my impression of a brexiter?

Here it is :

"waaaaaaaaaaah immigrants waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah "

That's very unfair. Only a few Brexiters I know have ever mentioned immigrants, and even then it was usually a sympathetic review of the situation. You're prolonging the scare stories. It's divisive & quite unnecessary.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

That's very unfair. Only a few Brexiters I know have ever mentioned immigrants, and even then it was usually a sympathetic review of the situation. You're prolonging the scare stories. It's divisive & quite unnecessary.

The ones that claim it's not about immigration have very flimsy arguments which usually, after reading between the lines, turn out to be centred around immigration. The official definition of xenophobia is literally fear of the outsider.

I don't give a **** if it's devisive. I want brexiters to take responsibility for what they've done and own up to the fact that their decision was stupid. But so far all I get is excuses, blaming everyone but themselves, and in a number of extremely delusional cases, denial. I, as a remainer, have been blamed for the pound plummeting because apparently I'm "talking the country down". By talking economic sense and explaining how the economy is about to shrink and all those immigration controls will be cancelled out by redundancies, I'm "talking the country down". Just like how the £350 million a week membership fee got wiped off the economy over night and now the NHS is going to get privatised. Which I suppose is what UKIP wanted all along as a set of fanatically right wing ideological psychopaths.

Why do you think Farage has disappeared? He's got his revolving door contract with Murdoch on the after dinner speaking circuit or as an advisor or some other bullshit non-job where he gets paid handsomely to do **** all and he's ****ed off out of politics, like the true twat that he is. And what does he get? Put on a pedestal by the working class voters that he's just taken for absolute mugs.

 

[Whitejock]

For me it was easy. Labour rights guaranteed by the EU that won't be guaranteed by an obsessively ideological tory government on a crusade against working people. It's really that simple. But I actually listened to Jeremy Corbyn instead of believing the media frenzy bollocks about him being some crazy communist, which I can actually prove that he's not, and thought about it for myself for more than 5 minutes instead of getting caught up in all the complete bollocks that you've rightly identified.

I'm actually most impressed by Mr Corbyn myself, but tbh, he doesn't fit the mould of leader in most people's eyes. As I mentioned in an earlier post, fear of change is a huge obstacle to progress, & that is the thing that's undermining him at the moment. I'm not sure that people are ready to take a chance on a new type of leadership. I do have my fingers crossed, though.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

That's very unfair. Only a few Brexiters I know have ever mentioned immigrants, and even then it was usually a sympathetic review of the situation. You're prolonging the scare stories. It's divisive & quite unnecessary.

Replace "immigrants" with "sovereignty" in my impression and it covers the other half of brexiters.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

I'm actually most impressed by Mr Corbyn myself, but tbh, he doesn't fit the mould of leader in most people's eyes. As I mentioned in an earlier post, fear of change is a huge obstacle to progress, & that is the thing that's undermining him at the moment. I'm not sure that people are ready to take a chance on a new type of leadership. I do have my fingers crossed, though.

Give it a couple of years. Fresh faced 18 year olds starry eyed and hopeful for the future with nothing to lose ready to vote labour in their millions, with little interest in traditional media sources. There's going to be a rebalancing of the media as print media loses ground to social media. The balance of the scales is about to tip, and when it does it will be very sudden. The main obstacle to the lower orders having their voices heard has finally been overcome - it costs **** all to set up a blog that can be done in the spare time, and as fellows such as Thomas G Clark of Another Angry Voice (who, for the record, happens to be a Leeds United fan) are proving, such blogs live and die by the quality of information they provide. Information has been properly marketised, and it won't take long for the effects to be seen.

I actually expect there will be a VERY sudden shift in mainstream political thought, most likely around the start of 2018 extending to 2019.

Unfortunately for me, that means I'll be well into my 30s before I have my needs as a disabled man taken seriously and until then I'm just a puppet to be forced into full time low paid employment that I can't handle for the sake of increasing competition and bringing wages down. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay thatcherism. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Thanks gullible morons from the 80s. It's not rocket science to work out that the economic model that just happens to fit in exactly with what the rich want to hear isn't going to work out for average Joe Working Class.

 

[Whitejock]

The ones that claim it's not about immigration have very flimsy arguments which usually, after reading between the lines, turn out to be centred around immigration. The official definition of xenophobia is literally fear of the outsider.

I don't give a **** if it's devisive. I want brexiters to take responsibility for what they've done and own up to the fact that their decision was stupid. But so far all I get is excuses, blaming everyone but themselves, and in a number of extremely delusional cases, denial. I, as a remainer, have been blamed for the pound plummeting because apparently I'm "talking the country down". By talking economic sense and explaining how the economy is about to shrink and all those immigration controls will be cancelled out by redundancies, I'm "talking the country down". Just like how the £350 million a week membership fee got wiped off the economy over night and now the NHS is going to get privatised. Which I suppose is what UKIP wanted all along as a set of fanatically right wing ideological psychopaths.

Why do you think Farage has disappeared? He's got his revolving door contract with Murdoch on the after dinner speaking circuit or as an advisor or some other bullshit non-job where he gets paid handsomely to do **** all and he's ****ed off out of politics, like the true twat that he is. And what does he get? Put on a pedestal by the working class voters that he's just taken for absolute mugs.

I stopped reading this fairly quickly.

Reason? You're blaming the voting population. Blaming them for being brainwashed, effectively. Information was presented to them in a self-serving manner. If you want someone to blame, you must effect Root Cause Analysis, and the result would be the tory party not having the cojones (see what I did there?) to make the decision themselves, after substantive debate. Why was a referendum required? Why no referendum for equally important decisions? Simple - the tories needed someone to blame if they got it wrong. That's who you should blame - not people asked to make a decision with no data & poorly educated in the economic & financial fields required to make a fully reasoned decision on which way to vote.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

The gods honest truth is that most people voted for Brexit out of some romantic notion of identity. Some bollocks about Britishness and British values that don't really seem to make sense and sound alarmingly like the values of 1930s Germany. Who gives a **** about your identity when your identity is actively making you worse off?

 

[MarkoLUFC]

I stopped reading this fairly quickly.

Reason? You're blaming the voting population. Blaming them for being brainwashed, effectively. Information was presented to them in a self-serving manner. If you want someone to blame, you must effect Root Cause Analysis, and the result would be the tory party not having the cojones (see what I did there?) to make the decision themselves, after substantive debate. Why was a referendum required? Why no referendum for equally important decisions? Simple - the tories needed someone to blame if they got it wrong. That's who you should blame - not people asked to make a decision with no data & poorly educated in the economic & financial fields required to make a fully reasoned decision on which way to vote.

Do not get me started on the tories. Decades and decades of lying to the electorate to get voted in because they know they haven't a cat in hells chance if they share what they really want to do. I'm pissed off with the electorate because the electorate fall for it again and again.

Is the information presented? Not that often. Did you know for example that despite a reputation for being strong with the economy and financially sensible, the economy consistently falls apart under Tory governments AND they also consistently borrow more money?

It's as if the garden variety swing voter has seen Labour and Tory as two equally viable parties with pros and cons, when in reality there is only really one way to run an effective economy for the best interests of ordinary people, and that's by stimulating demand. Any behavioural psychologist will tell you that free stuff covering the basic necessities of life like cheap housing and free healthcare and even free money does very little to deter the average Joe from working their bollocks off to make their life better. But tories will time and time again claim that there's a benefit culture developing in the UK and arseholes like Murdoch will feed it with an endless stream of benefit culture lies on channel 5. There's no scientific basis whatsoever for benefit dependency. None at all. Across several fields - psychology, economics, you name it.

 

[MarkoLUFC]

I stopped reading this fairly quickly.

Reason? You're blaming the voting population. Blaming them for being brainwashed, effectively. Information was presented to them in a self-serving manner. If you want someone to blame, you must effect Root Cause Analysis, and the result would be the tory party not having the cojones (see what I did there?) to make the decision themselves, after substantive debate. Why was a referendum required? Why no referendum for equally important decisions? Simple - the tories needed someone to blame if they got it wrong. That's who you should blame - not people asked to make a decision with no data & poorly educated in the economic & financial fields required to make a fully reasoned decision on which way to vote.

Besides everything else I've just said, I am disabled. So while the tories and their media mates are feeding fears about terrorism, immigration and a repeat attempt at german dominance and taking advantage to get into power, it's muggins here who has to spend months on end feeling like a piece of **** for the horrible crime of asking for support. Do I look like a ****ing scrounger? I thought I lived in a country of innocent until proven guilty.

It's a ****ing good job my parents are reasonably well off and very supportive because otherwise I'd probably be out on the street, in prison or dead. That's what usually happens to people like me without support, which apparently I have to prove that I need, time and time and time again, all to appease some paranoid nobody who watched too much channel 5 and actually believed it because they are stupid. I'm not stupid. I'm exceptionally intelligent. When do I get to have my concerns about other peoples stupidity heard? When do I get to impose my perceived needs on other peoples lives and if they don't like it tough ****? When is it my turn to not get treated like a piece of **** for once in my life?

 

[Whitejock]

Do not get me started on the tories. Decades and decades of lying to the electorate to get voted in because they know they haven't a cat in hells chance if they share what they really want to do. I'm pissed off with the electorate because the electorate fall for it again and again.

Is the information presented? Not that often. Did you know for example that despite a reputation for being strong with the economy and financially sensible, the economy consistently falls apart under Tory governments AND they also consistently borrow more money?

It's as if the garden variety swing voter has seen Labour and Tory as two equally viable parties with pros and cons, when in reality there is only really one way to run an effective economy for the best interests of ordinary people, and that's by stimulating demand. Any behavioural psychologist will tell you that free stuff covering the basic necessities of life like cheap housing and free healthcare and even free money does very little to deter the average Joe from working their bollocks off to make their life better. But tories will time and time again claim that there's a benefit culture developing in the UK and arseholes like Murdoch will feed it with an endless stream of benefit culture lies on channel 5. There's no scientific basis whatsoever for benefit dependency. None at all. Across several fields - psychology, economics, you name it.

I won't get you started on the tories. They probably make me angrier than you. Remember, I lived through the thatcher years, in Lanarkshire, which she destroyed. I know all about her, and then some more. You ever heard of Sir Keith Joseph & his tory think tank? I've forgotten most of it, but always remember that he found umpteen different categories of unemployment that shoud be deleted from the reported unemployment figures. He had many similar 'achievements'.

And on a note to finish - Gordon Brown was my Politics lecturer at college. I don't care what anyone says, he was, and is, a brilliant man. Most people just don't realise how brilliant.