True - last season, if we conceded a goal, we would probably go and lose the game due to our inability to score at the other end.
I don't think that is too far from the truth for this season, that was sort of my point. The defence probably seems worse because of the timing, type of goal or the consequence. We are worse at set-pieces than we were last season and we have become suspect to a counter-attack too, both will be things that a stick in people's minds. Plus we have conceded two a few times. How many clean sheets did we get?
I think it's because we held a very decent amount of clean sheets - but when we did concede the flood gates opened (3 vs villa, southampton, west brom) Overall I think it's clear that we are progressing and I think we will be competing next year - just need a good start, that will be vital. Got to give credit to BR for his January signings after the disaster in the summer - and rather than everything going stale towards the end of the year with nothing to play for we have excelled and looked a very good side. I was also half expected us to be dog **** when Suarez got banned as well but it's been quite the opposite. Looking forward to next year, what with all the transition elsewhere we could really get in the mix
Can't agree with us excelling despite the season being over, most of the players have been on holiday for the last five to six weeks!
We suffered from the change of manager, style and poor transfer activity in August/September. We got something like 2 points from our first 6 games? If we replicate our second half of the season form and don't start like a trainwreck, we could break 70 points next year, surely.
so this does two things.... 1. it compares two awful seasons 2. it ignores the two cup runs as it focuses on the league. In my mind we collapsed to 8th under kenny. it was relegation form. If the side tried a bloody leg we would have closed that 9 point gap. I think there are a few results that make that goals coring look really good and most came after christmas. wigan and newcastle thrashing for example. The point must be to go from here. We added two really good options to the side. we have seen reina pick u his form hugely in the past 4 months and he's cut the errors right out, making key and class saves too boot, we should have fitter gerrard and lucas and eprhaps agger too... we should have more options from the squad as youths come on some more. All in all.... its not the table that tells us much its the squad, generally speaking we've seem enough to put a core of a team back together now thats got the fitness and form to make us better but we need to add to that core with really good signings. without signings we can return to 7th again and wonder why. But lets be clear. had we scored one v everton at anfield we'd be 6th.... had we just kept the option in august we could have been closer to 4th. the first half was disastrous, we looked almost hodgsonesque is terms of league position. if we can do what the manager has again said which is add consistency and winning mentality then the ONLY important stat (points) can be improve don again.
We're progressing slowly, but surely. At least no fools are wittering on about 'next year is our year' (except the normal wum Trojan rats, pretending to be Red's fans). Hope for fifth next year. The top three, even with new managers, are out of our reach, in fairness. And Spurs and Arsenal are better than us too, and the possibility of Arsenal strengthening in the summer is worrying re that fourth place in the long-term. Everton? Well we'll see what happens with a new manager and whether Moyes walks off with the spine of a settled squad with him. I said eighth this season, what with a new manager and the summer debacle over Carroll and not signing a new striker. Be interesting to see who Rogers signs, but i don't expect any stellar signings.
If you say Rodgers was responsible for getting Henderson and Downing playing then you must credit Hodgson for making Lucas. And clearly if you think that, you're a muppet whose opinion is invalid. There were good reasons to sign those players and I always expected them to deliver more this season after they'd settled. Some players do that, y'know? Though the old Lucas critics would never know it. We created a lot of chances last season, more than anybody else, as I understand it. Ditto corners. And a record number of woodwork hits. The law of averages said more of those would go in this season. The players weren't aiming for the woodwork and Brendan hasn't made the goalposts bigger so you can't say that's down to him, either. Indeed, do a very conservative estimate and we could've made 5th easily: Round over 30 woodwork hits down to 30. If the average seems to be between 5 and 10 hits per season - and asking around, that was the consensus - then take 10 as a conservative estimate. 30 - 10 = 20 fewer woodwork hits. Assume only half of those 20 woodwork hits go in, that's 10 more goals. More conservative estimating to err on the side of caution. Spread 10 goals over the season and we could've had another 15 points, which would've taken us to 5th, a point behind Spurs. That's all with conservative estimates. We don't know who Kenny would've bought in the summer but we were ready to kick on as winners. FSG set us back. And Rodgers hasn't really taken us forward. We may find we lose more quality in Reina, Suarez and Skrtel than he's able to bring in this summer. For a bloke who's all about possession and passing, Brendan really had to rely on Carra more than anybody else this season, which is a bit like Bill Gates relying on steam. But then there were many times when it seemed the players were reverting to pass and move instead of pass and pass and pass and pass and pass and move, with far better effect, which made me think Brendan had lost confidence in his own Big Plan. Rodgers' transfers, as much as you can judge any player in his first season, have so far been no less a mixed bunch than Kenny's seemed. Kenny's players are working out now and I think if we'd held onto Carroll he'd have continued to improve, too. But as ever, the Lucas Protocol will make a fool of judging young players too early. Managers not so much because they play a much bigger part in the jigsaw and when they're delivering exactly what their record showed, you can't be surprised. There were good reasons to sign Jordan Henderson; there were none for Rodgers except keeping a Championship side in the Premier League, which McCarthy, Curbishley, Allardyce, Hodgson and Megson have all done, too. Big woo. You can wait for a 22-yr old player to become a 24-yr old but waiting for a young Rodgers to gain the necessary experience could take ten years. So, in summary: we should've and could've taken a step up on last season but we took two steps back. Kenny had the chops to take the step up but in my never-humble opinion Brendan doesn't. As you knew before you started reading this post. I bet more of you agree with me now than did last summer.
He finished with a 9 point improvement over last season. That's rather good. Assuming that we can build on the January signings (big assumption, but I want to believe) we should finish around 70 points next season, which then throws us in the race for 4th, depending on other results and whether we can go above and beyond. Selling Downing and Shelvey, plus reinforcing our back 4, should help us push forwards. If Suarez wears a muzzle next season, and keeps on with his goalscoring record, we have a good chance of improvement. At this point, United have won a few more titles, while Arsenal and Chelsea aren't close yet. To me, as long as we move forward, I don't care who wins what. If we stay competitive and don't give up on our goals halfway through, I'll be happy.
Actually, I don't. Last summer I was apprehensive and didn't know if BR would improve us. After this year I'm happy that he has improved us as a team both in terms of playing ability and quality of players. You're such a bizarre fan, you really do live in the past, did supporting LFC stop for you when KK got the sack? You've been a wet drip ever since with your moaning about Rodgers. He's our manager, and he's not doing too shabbily, so support him - it's what fans do.
Same. I understood where MFG was coming from last summer. BR had a poor win rate and was coming from a track record that, quite frankly, wasn't not very impressive. The foundations at Swansea had been set by the two previous guys BUT neither of them got Swansea promoted, BR did! He also kept them up too. There was an argument for either side of the coin, still is to a degree. However, the continued stance that BR is the wrong man for the job despite being a year down the line and the team showing signs of improvement (which MFG credits to previous managers: well impressed that Kenny lined up Sturridge and Coutinho BTW ) is just plain ignorance. Last time I checked we were Liverpool supporters and criticising the manager no matter what happens didn't fall under the job description! It is tiresome and TBH, I think MFG is just on a WUM nowadays
Mathematically speaking, that's not how the law of averages work. The numbers involved are too small to make those assumptions. At top level football, minute differences in training methods can transfer tenfold onto the pitch. It's more down to the coaching staff practicing finishing and shooting this year as opposed to Kenny's pass and move football. For the record, without Kenny we would not have adapted as fast to Rodgers tactics. Once again, you don't know that. Kenny bought Downing, Adam, Carroll, Henderson, Bellamy, and Enrique. I don't count Suarez as that deal had been agreed before Kenny came to the club. Of those, only Henderson and Enrique remain in good standing. Henderson was played out of position, but Enrique was good. So 3/6 if you count Henderson as being good last season. Which I don't, reason being him playing out on the right and not being confident enough. Rodgers either did something to make Henderson and Enrique play well or he did nothing and they miraculously got better by themselves. If you're making the assumption that Rodgers did nothing, then you must make that assumption about Kenny as well. Anything else is bias without any sort of evidence. Had Kenny changed his tactics, you'd have claimed it was a tactical masterstroke. About halfway through the season we gave up on an offensively fluid 4-3-3 because our front 3 didn't communicate with the midfield. And it worked, as we played much better in the tail end of the season than we did at the beginning. So what if he lost confidence in his plan? He adapted and succeeded. So basically you are saying both Rodgers and Kenny have the same track record on signings? Fair enough, but Rodgers didn't spend 100+m. I agree that Carroll would have been ever so useful this season but you have to say, why wasn't he improving at all under Dalglish for 3/4ths of a season? Was Kenny trying to get the most out of 0g 0a Downing? Was he trying to play Henderson in the role he was supposed to play? I don't think he was. I think he had been out of management at that level for a while, which showed in his hands-off approach to tactics. We wouldn't switch tactics halfway through a game then, we would now. We wouldn't change formations, or anything. We were so strict in our positioning that it damaged the team. Hodgson played the same way. Now don't get me wrong, KK is ten times the manager Hodge is, but near the midpoint of the season, the similarities were evident. We chose to ignore them because of the sentimentality involved, and because the results were better. But the results are better this season, and I'll bet they will be next season. I don't think so. I think Kenny did well to get us to two finals, but was cack in the league. I think he was too rigid in his formations, and tactically naive at points (IE the FA cup final, only being saved by the rare brilliance of AC). He was, however, better at handling issues, not as slimy, and didn't bootlick at all. Kenny was a good match for that transitional season, but we would not have progressed. Rodgers, as much as I hate his interviews and methods (and I know you do too, MFG) is taking us forward. Perhaps he is too stubborn at points, but you'd know about that, wouldn't you? You're a huge fan of Rafa.
Thanks for saving me a job writing out exactly that As much as I hated seeing Kenny sacked I don't for one minute lay the blame at Rodgers door (I'm not a Chelsea fan after all). Do I think we are further on than we would have been under Kenny? I just find it impossible to say. I wanted Kenny to be given more time I've never made any secret of that but as we had our worst post-xmas league run for half a century I find it tough to argue we'd have performed brilliantly this year. Yes I made excuses for him last season (we were playing better than results suggested, the Suarez affair was a horrendous distraction) so I think it's only fair that I allow Rodgers a few excuses too (young manager in his first big job, following a legend is always tough). I find it crazy that anyone can complement Kenny for improving the fortunes of certain players and yet say any player improvement seen under Rodgers (Gerrard, Henderson and Suarez to name 3) is just coincidence. Is Rodgers going to take us to the next level? Again I honestly can't say either way. Those that think he'll fail may well be right. However they can't say for definite (based on evidence rather than opinion) anymore than I can. The difference is most of us desperately want him to succeed (for the sake of the club) whereas certain people desperately want him to fail...I find that bizarre...especially from those with a penchant for quoting Shanks and Sir Bob. At the start of the season I thought we'd struggle. Confidence was low from the back end of the previous campaign, Rodgers made big mistakes in the summer and it hurt us early on especially given the tough first 6/7 fixtures. Gerrard was hit and miss, the system was too predictable, a total lack of options up front, a defence that was being asked to do daft things and club officials who seemed more interested in making naff tv drivel and spying on "leaks" than focussing on football. It wasn't difficult to see the issues....and it was a worry that Rodgers might be too stubborn to change anything. So not a great start. Second half of the season has been better though. We brought in two players to alter our attacking options. We had to buy well and we did. We had to adapt the system and we did. I want a manager who will adapt to problems and change things that aren't working so I see that as a positive. Yes we still have big challenges ahead and no I'm not 100% certain they'll be tackled in the right way but at this moment I'm looking forwatd to next season.
To be honest, the change in goals is important. We were PAINFUL to watch last season. Just over 40 goals is awful. Second half of this season, once Rodgers bedded in and added Sturridge + Cou, we've been great to watch and very effective.
I reckon we've progressed, not as much as I'd like but progressed none the less. Start of the season was a mixed bag but I blame Ian Ayre for not pulling his finger out. To sanction the Carroll move with no replacement was laughable. That left us with only one plan. In January we bought quickly and well and that is underlined in our performances since then. Everton will be ****e without Moyes and whoever else he takes with him. Spurs will do well to keep Bale and Arsenal won't spend. It'll be close for fourth between us, Arsenal and the Spuds. I hope we get our transfer business done quick again and find a replacement for Carra and, I think, Reina.
I think an improvement of 9 points is quite significant - especially considering that we had to lose some key men in Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy. Add that to the poor summer and we were always going to struggle at the start. We got better and better as the season wore on, thanks to Sturridge and Coutinho and I genuinely believe that we would be higher in the table had they joined in August. Onwards and upwards and I'm looking forward to the summer.
in fairness kuyt, bellamy and maxi are all out of legs and had no place at the upper half of the prem. but losing those options for borini and nobody else was an awful mistake. As long as rodgers takes that on the chin and never repeats it then fair enough give him his learning. He now needs to prove januaray was not one off. We eagerly anticipate the next moves.
I think the club as a whole are learning - call it a baptism of fire if you will. The damning mistakes last summer cost us during the first half of the season but we learnt from it and not only did we buy good value players, but we did it pretty quickly. I now expect us to do the same in the coming transfer windows. Rodgers looks like he's adapting and becoming more flexible. He tried the 3-5-2 formation a couple of times which shows he is open to new ideas but if it doesn't work out (which it didn't), then he is equally as quick to change things. I do like his proactive approach. Overall, the club is lacking experience from top to bottom - the owners are new to football, Ian Ayre is new the MD role, Rodgers isn't used to managing a massive club and the players are young themselves. Another year has passed and more experience is gained through past mistakes.
Undoubtedly we have progressed - second half of the season 9 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses. Robbed by WBA, crap performance against Southampton, not good enough against ManU. Otherwise, it was pleasing to see us putting teams to the sword, rather than getting 2 up and easing off. Next season should be better, as long as we get replacements in for Carra, Skrtel, add Alonso from Real and perhaps a penetrative winger (Ince?). If we can also get Erikson in from Ajax, we should be able to let some of our prospects out on loan for Premier League game time, like Suso, Ibe...
