Common denominator

[Jiffie]

There is definitely one overriding common denominator about our present situation.

On Saturday 7 of the starting line up had also played under LJ, 8 of them under Holden + 3 on the bench played for both of them.

Some of these players are without doubt not good enough and almost certainly never were, they certainly have never been consistent that’s for sure.

They have collectively seen off 2 managers with gutless, half hearted and mistake ridden performances and are well on the way to seeing off a 3rd.

Anybody who believes that our current woes (although without doubt far worse than ever) are down to this manager are in dreamland, believe me this has been coming for a long long time, I don’t like using cancer analogies and I apologise but left unchecked and untreated always end’s with one inevitable scenario.

I have said before if we sack Pearson we will soon be looking at sacking the person mad enough to take over this poor squad, because there is not a coach yet born who could get this squad playing to any great degree of consistency, too many just do not have it in them, because they ain’t good enough.

There are rumours about Pearson and his health problems, I heard one last night from an ex pro and if true is very sad and worrying in equal measures.

Lansdown has to do something that he has failed to do in a January window before and sign at least 3 to 5 quality players.

I know this won't suit the agenda of certain people, but IMHO it is true, they ain't good enough.

 

[Supcon72]

I would definitely agree they are not consistent. The runs of wins and losses under LJ that we saw almost every season point to that. However, they were still part of a team/squad that had good runs of wins and were comfortably a top half, top 10 side. Under NP there have been no runs of wins to offset the runs of losses, and we are a bottom 6 side. So, if these players are not good enough, how did LJ extract sufficient from them (and the supposed dross that NP got rid of at the end of last season) to keep us in the top half and playoff hunt? Perhaps he never got the credit he deserved on that front, that reality is what won't suit the agenda of many on here. LJ was never as bad as many said, there was blatant bigotry towards LJ from some on here from Day 1. The irony is that view makes them no better than their issue of him favored through Nepotism. You couldn't make it up.


bigotry
noun

1. obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
   "the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"

 

[Red Robin]

There is definitely one overriding common denominator about our present situation.

On Saturday 7 of the starting line up had also played under LJ, 8 of them under Holden + 3 on the bench played for both of them.

Some of these players are without doubt not good enough and almost certainly never were, they certainly have never been consistent that’s for sure.

They have collectively seen off 2 managers with gutless, half hearted and mistake ridden performances and are well on the way to seeing off a 3rd.

Anybody who believes that our current woes (although without doubt far worse than ever) are down to this manager are in dreamland, believe me this has been coming for a long long time, I don’t like using cancer analogies and I apologise but left unchecked and untreated always end’s with one inevitable scenario.

I have said before if we sack Pearson we will soon be looking at sacking the person mad enough to take over this poor squad, because there is not a coach yet born who could get this squad playing to any great degree of consistency, too many just do not have it in them, because they ain’t good enough.

There are rumours about Pearson and his health problems, I heard one last night from an ex pro and if true is very sad and worrying in equal measures.

Lansdown has to do something that he has failed to do in a January window before and sign at least 3 to 5 quality players.

I know this won't suit the agenda of certain people, but IMHO it is true, they ain't good enough.

There is so much crap being spouted about NP lots involving drink which i don't believe what so ever.
What the club should come out and say is exactly what the problem is and everyone knows exactly where we stand as a football club.

 

[Jiffie]

I would definitely agree they are not consistent. The runs of wins and losses under LJ that we saw almost every season point to that. However, they were still part of a team/squad that had good runs of wins and were comfortably a top half, top 10 side. Under NP there have been no runs of wins to offset the runs of losses, and we are a bottom 6 side. So, if these players are not good enough, how did LJ extract sufficient to keep them (and the supposed dross that NP got rid of at the end of last season) to keep us in the top half and playoff hunt. Perhaps he never got the credit he deserved on that front, that reality is what won't suit the agenda of many on here. LJ was never as bad as many said, there was blatant bigotry towards LJ from some on here. The irony being that view makes them no better than their issue of him favoured through Nepotism. You couldn't make it up.


bigotry
noun

1. obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
   "the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"

In what universe is 5 wins, 9 losses and 2 draws from the beginning of January 2019 til when he was sacked anything other than a warning sign that something was woefully wrong and the players were obviously not playing for him?

And after the Holden honeymoon period, we returned to exactly the same type of form and after the shorter Pearson honeymoon period exactly the same again, so either the players are the problem or the 3 managers and vast host of coaches are the problem?

As for the supposed dross that Pearson got rid of (although that's not strictly true, they were all out of contract) please apart from Paterson who has started off at Swansea like he started off for us, who of this dross is rubbing our noses in it in mainly lower leagues?

I have always accepted that LJ did a good job but the problem always will be, 'some people' claim all of the good stuff and signings were down to LJ and all the **** and ****ter signings were down to Ashton, which is utter nonsense.

Yours and others anger instead of being turned on those with differing views to yours, turn that onto a) the owner who has allowed the playing side of the business to sink to the depths of where we actually find ourselves and b) certain players who have looked well into the death throes of LJ's term and beyond to not actually giving a ****.

What these players did during their last reasonable run is wholly irrelevant that was nearly 3 years ago and their form, attitude and mistakes have been the norm since January 2019, with the odd flurry of reasonable form and that is why we are where we are now.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

There are all sorts of rumours flying around about NPs illness - and I noticed that one thread on the subject got removed from OTIB with a libel warning from the mods.
The truth is he's ill. I'm assuming it's something nasty and long term by the rumours and lack of official news.
I wish him a full and speedy recovery, whatever his illness. Absolutely I do.

Now; regarding the squad; we are stuck with who we have. No amount of moaning or finger-pointing will change it. Some will moan and point the finger at LJ/Ashton for the likes of Palmer, DaSilva and O'Dowda, at DH for the likes of Martin and the glass-boned Williams and at NP for Simpson. None of it will make any difference. We have to manage with who we have. The only other possibility is to scour the market for free transfers - and I would hope that the club is already doing that because its the logical and professional thing to be doing isn't it......?!!!!!.
We have to do just enough to avoid relegation. We have been gifted a chance with Derby's situation and there is a strong possibility that Reading will also have a points deduction, so we will only have to avoid ONE relegation place..
If NP isn't fit enough to manage the team then we will have NO CHOICE but to get a replacement. It's not about being 'nasty' or unfair to poor old Nige - or about finding someone else to sack if that person fails to keep us up. It's about having SOMEONE who does the manager's job - picking the side and formations - and being in the dugout on matchdays. Nigel can't do it from his sick bed - and it would be unfair and wrong to ask him to.

We need to do this quickly, so that the replacement has a chance to review the side and understand the strengths and weaknesses before the January window - otherwise we will have yet another window of nothingness and will simply trip and stumble our way down to L1.

I said 'We need to do this quickly....', but when has anything been done quickly and efficiently in this joke of a club? I would expect interviews to start around 1st January and conclude 4 weeks later, with the assistant manager being appointed as a stop-gap - just in time for the window to shut.
That's the kind of thing that would NORMALLY happen at BS3 ........

 

[Jiffie]

There is so much crap being spouted about NP lots involving drink which i don't believe what so ever.
What the club should come out and say is exactly what the problem is and everyone knows exactly where we stand as a football club.

It is difficult to know what to believe anymore.

But too many in this squad would be more than enough to drive a man to drink or illness.

I am really interested to see who people honestly believe could actually turn this squad around or who would even want to try and exactly how much time and resources that person would be given to make that turn around, because Holden and Pearson have been starved of those resources, yes they both knew that going in but I suppose we need a special turd polisher to emerge.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

It is difficult to know what to believe anymore.

But too many in this squad would be more than enough to drive a man to drink or illness.

I am really interested to see who people honestly believe could actually turn this squad around or who would even want to try and exactly how much time and resources that person would be given to make that turn around, because Holden and Pearson have been starved of those resources, yes they both knew that going in but I suppose we need a special turd polisher to emerge.

We might go down anyway with someone new at the helm, but we are highly likely to go down with NOBODY at the helm.

 

[Jiffie]

We might go down anyway with someone new at the helm, but we are highly likely to go down with NOBODY at the helm.

Ummmm Curtis Fleming is not nobody, the unfolding situation is probably the reason that he was named as assistant manager, when Holden never had one and neither did Pearson until Fleming's elevation.

If he is the assistant manager and is in contact with Pearson and the CEO and the owners, I would hope and expect that targets have been identified and work is being done to bring some missing quality in.

Why have an assistant manager at all if we are going to bring somebody new in?, that doesn't make any sense to me, I don't see bringing somebody new in as a viable option personally, but hey i'm sure SL will make the right call (yeah right).

If we go purely with what we have, I think we will go down and maybe even be overtaken by Derby, who at least are making a fight of it.

 

[Supcon72]

have always accepted that LJ did a good job but the problem always will be, 'some people' claim all of the good stuff and signings were down to LJ and all the **** and ****ter signings were down to Ashton, which is utter nonsense.

I have never claimed that! For sure there are signings that IMO Ashton forced on LJ, Palmer in particular is one I would point to. I also think LJ had run his course at BCFC, but like many, you point to his last run, but not the good run before. Either way, he didn't deserve the personal abuse he got from many due to his previous connections to the club. That is what angers me. He did a good job until he didn't, same for every manager.

 

[Red Robin]

Ummmm Curtis Fleming is not nobody, the unfolding situation is probably the reason that he was named as assistant manager, when Holden never had one and neither did Pearson until Fleming's elevation.

If he is the assistant manager and is in contact with Pearson and the CEO and the owners, I would hope and expect that targets have been identified and work is being done to bring some missing quality in.

Why have an assistant manager at all if we are going to bring somebody new in?, that doesn't make any sense to me, I don't see bringing somebody new in as a viable option personally, but hey i'm sure SL will make the right call (yeah right).

If we go purely with what we have, I think we will go down and maybe even be overtaken by Derby, who at least are making a fight of it.

Derby are having a massive points deduction as will Reading they are both going down-just that last spot to keep away from.

 

[Supcon72]

It is difficult to know what to believe anymore.

But too many in this squad would be more than enough to drive a man to drink or illness.

I am really interested to see who people honestly believe could actually turn this squad around or who would even want to try and exactly how much time and resources that person would be given to make that turn around, because Holden and Pearson have been starved of those resources, yes they both knew that going in but I suppose we need a special turd polisher to emerge.

That excuse just doesn't cut it with me, and I'm sick of it being churned out every 2 mins. We are 1 of only 8 clubs who paid actual transfer fees in the Championship this summer., so SL has supported NP a lot more than owners at other clubs in this division. EVERYONE has had to cut their spending, as well as not being able to sell assets in the same way as before, yet you make it sound like it's only DH and NP. Guess what, the next manager (if it's very soon) won't have much either, that is the reality of today. Managers need to start earning their corn again by coaching and managing players (more so in the PL to be fair), not just buy in new ones when the going gets tough. I for one hope COVID resets that thinking in the game in this country.

 

[Jiffie]

I have never claimed that! For sure there are signings that IMO Ashton forced on LJ, Palmer in particular is one I would point to. I also think LJ had run his course at BCFC, but like many, you point to his last run, but not the good run before. Either way, he didn't deserve the personal abuse he got from many due to his previous connections to the club. That is what angers me. He did a good job until he didn't, same for every manager.

Your final sentence is spot on. If Pearson was sacked, I wouldn't be happy (because I cannot think of a coach living or otherwise who would change our fortunes with this squad). I can go back to Fred Ford and I cannot think of a single manager that even BCFC have sacked who didn't deserve it, for one reason or another.

Mate I point to his last run because that is what ultimately got him sacked, what happened in 2019 is totally irrelevant, winning runs or not, it is the final run that get managers sacked, I am sure Villa never gave a thought to their demolition job on Liverpool when sacking Smith.

As for your Ashton remarks again that is as rightly say opinion and something that when signing his 4 year contract earlier in 2019, he could have addressed but obviously chose not to.

 

[Jiffie]

That excuse just doesn't cut it with me, and I'm sick of it being churned out every 2 mins. We are 1 of only 8 clubs who paid actual transfer fees in the Championship this summer., so SL has supported NP a lot more than owners at other clubs in this division. EVERYONE has had to cut their spending, as well as not being able to sell assets in the same way as before, yet you make it sound like it's only DH and NP. Guess what, the next manager (if it's very soon) won't have much either, that is the reality of today. Managers need to start earning their corn again by coaching and managing players (more so in the PL to be fair), not just buy in new ones when the going gets tough. I for one hope COVID resets that thinking in the game in this country.

As I pointed out last week, our expenditure is almost certainly no more than several clubs that you mentioned back then, they signed between 11 and 13 players and some did pay fees as well and when you add signing on fees and wages, I wouldn't mind betting that the difference is minimal.

PS:- Exactly how many managers or coaches do we need before realising that it is too many of this squad that is the problem? and not the managers and coaches. As for the thinking what would be worse for Bristolsport/SL, more debt or relegation into a league that has become the graveyard of 'BIG' clubs recently? I suspect even SL knows the answer to that one.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

Ummmm Curtis Fleming is not nobody, the unfolding situation is probably the reason that he was named as assistant manager, when Holden never had one and neither did Pearson until Fleming's elevation.

If he is the assistant manager and is in contact with Pearson and the CEO and the owners, I would hope and expect that targets have been identified and work is being done to bring some missing quality in.

Why have an assistant manager at all if we are going to bring somebody new in?, that doesn't make any sense to me, I don't see bringing somebody new in as a viable option personally, but hey i'm sure SL will make the right call (yeah right).

If we go purely with what we have, I think we will go down and maybe even be overtaken by Derby, who at least are making a fight of it.

Perhaps it’s my footballing ignorance but I’d not heard of Curtis Fleming before he arrived here.

 

[wizered]

Perhaps it’s my footballing ignorance but I’d not heard of Curtis Fleming before he arrived here.

I must be a bit of a thicko I had no knowledge of him either and I always thought Nige was a bit arrogant.

 

[Jiffie]

Perhaps it’s my footballing ignorance but I’d not heard of Curtis Fleming before he arrived here.

I had never heard of Alan Dicks.

Fleming made 266 appearances for Middlesborough (including premier league) 10 Ireland international caps.

 

[invermeremike]

I have all but given up on Bristol City ever meeting the supposed goals set out by our owner yet alone the desires of the supporters. When it comes down to doing the right thing at the right time we always seem to discount the logic and go down the same path that has never achieved the end result that everybody wants. The blame has to lie solely at the feet of Steve Lansdown because he is still the main man and although the NP was a feather in his cap it is starting to look, for whatever reason, to have gone rogue quickly and badly. The most important thing in this scenario is the health of Nigel but having said that it is equally important to put the crisis to bed in a sympathetic and compassionate manner for the benefit of all, including Bristol City FC.

We need to step up the ante if we want to salvage what has been a disastrous start to this season and from the look of things here we go again deciding that the bulk of our players will never meet the standard to get us to safety. I truly cannot believe the capitulations I have watched this season and I have a difficult time understanding why there isn't someone out there who can turn them in to winners. What is about us that we permit this to happen season after bloody season or could it be that we only offer a quiet resting place where performance doesn't matter and you can just go at your own lazy pace without repercussions?

Does anybody out there really believe that as we speak the outgoing phone calls are happening to find resolutions to our current critical problems or are the data analysts, who apparently are the go to people for our club, just sitting on their fat arses? Apathy and it's associated downside will haunt us forever unless SL reviews his promises.

 

[Jiffie]

I have all but given up on Bristol City ever meeting the supposed goals set out by our owner yet alone the desires of the supporters. When it comes down to doing the right thing at the right time we always seem to discount the logic and go down the same path that has never achieved the end result that everybody wants. The blame has to lie solely at the feet of Steve Lansdown because he is still the main man and although the NP was a feather in his cap it is starting to look, for whatever reason, to have gone rogue quickly and badly. The most important thing in this scenario is the health of Nigel but having said that it is equally important to put the crisis to bed in a sympathetic and compassionate manner for the benefit of all, including Bristol City FC.

We need to step up the ante if we want to salvage what has been a disastrous start to this season and from the look of things here we go again deciding that the bulk of our players will never meet the standard to get us to safety. I truly cannot believe the capitulations I have watched this season and I have a difficult time understanding why there isn't someone out there who can turn them in to winners. What is about us that we permit this to happen season after bloody season or could it be that we only offer a quiet resting place where performance doesn't matter and you can just go at your own lazy pace without repercussions?

Does anybody out there really believe that as we speak the outgoing phone calls are happening to find resolutions to our current critical problems or are the data analysts, who apparently are the go to people for our club, just sitting on their fat arses? Apathy and it's associated downside will haunt us forever unless SL reviews his promises.

ODowda 147 games - 7 goals - 10 assists.
Wells 75 games - 16 goals - 4 assists.
Palmer 69 games - 6 goals - 6 assists.

That is shocking stats for players some consider as good players. How much longer do we wait for these 3 players to suddenly find the consistency that they have never so far found since arriving at our club?.

Vyner, Palmer and Bakinson are just so casual it beggars belief.

I keep hearing about players who went during the summer and yet only one of those is actually performing well and he started like that for us.

I wouldn't miss any of the above at this moment in time apart from Bakinson as long as he starts to shape up or else he can go as well.

As I have been saying there is an undoubted common denominator with where we are and why 3 managers and god knows how many coaches have failed with much of this squad and we have been sleep walking into this position with SL deluded with the quality of the squad that Holden and then Pearson inherited, the decline started almost 2 years ago and has steadily been getting worse.