I have mixed feelings. He has been given a good few games now to sort it out but at the same time it's not Christmas yet. Was at the game yesterday and the problem was the negative play. Too much play going the wrong way. The second problem was that Bobby missed a sitter, he shouldn't have tried to curl the ball in the corner. I am in no way going to start saying get rid of Bobby as I think he is a great player, but to me that was the biggest head-dropper yesterday, Jol had no control over that! On the other hand still waiting to see this attacking style that Jol uses...
As a club we have had 4 managers in 4 years, what good is employing another 1 going to make. Martin Jol was given a fairly large task to do when he was appointed: Get us through the group stages for a European Tour. Reduce the age of the squad. Keep a very settled squad happy. He has successfully got us through the group stages and into the Europa League proper. He is trying to reduce the age of the squad, whilst also trying to bolster the youth and reserve set up ( albeit with the help of some scouting done before he arrived ). The only issue so far is that he is not getting the rub of the green or the results. It boils down to finishing. MJ has completely changed the formation and it is going to take players, who have been very settled under a system that suits them, time to get used to it. I am not going to say that he has not made mistakes but we are all getting used to a new era in the clubs future. Everyone has to be patient and give it a fair go, introducing new faces and new tactics is going to take time. MJ has not had alot of time to simply train the players. He has more or less had to prepare for games since he arrived, look at what happened when we had the break, we came out and smashed QPR. The system we are playing if played well will be very hard to break down if done well, give Jol time to impliment it and we will see the rewards. This season is about stability and forming the future of our club from the first team to the youth set up, do not expect us to be flying up the table, premiership status and may be a run in the Europa League would be a success. Keep the faith COYW
Totally spot on Frogman. Each manager has his way of doing things - the MH season was a waste and we need Jol to be with us a few seasons to reap the benefit. COYW
Well, whether you are for the defence or the prosecution, it is clear from the posts that all is not well and something needs to be done quickly. After the first goal it looked as though the stuffing had been knocked out of the team. With 87 minutes to go, why? It's a long, long time since I've seen a Fulham team so flat. Have they lost the belief? First the positives. Chris Baird and a class goal by Ruiz. That's your lot folks. Other questions - Why does Schwartzer let in so many goals from 25 plus yards? Why cannot Riise cross the ball beyond the first defender? Is he fit? Why was BZ so disinterested? (He rarely challenged in the air; never chased the ball; spent most of his time around the half way line). Is it the AZ/AJ thing again? Why do we stand off players, especially in midfield? Why don't we pose a threat at corners? Why do players walk away when we get throw ins - with their back to the taker? Why are our freekicks invariably lacking in any threat? Why do we pull all 11 back when the opposition gets a corner? I'd suggest the answer is in the preparation And that's down to Jol. Part of it may be down to man management but most is a matter of getting back to basics - on the training ground. I've posted before that all the European and International travelling has robbed Jol of valuable time with the full squad. And still take that view but he surely has time to practice/plan some of the straightforward things. The bottom line is that we have stopped playing as a team and instead act as individuals - playground not premiership stuff. Players for example, don't cover/back up each other. Worse there is a lack of urgency throughout. We have a number (quite a high number in fact) of quality and experienced players. Forget age, you don't just lose those attributes overnight. So, I'm not calling for jol's head at this time, but I am questioning what the heck he does on the training ground.
You make a good point about preparation time and the impact of our Europa commitments, Cottager. I'm always loath to start talking about any game as 'must-win' (unless it's the cup, of course, that's pretty much the way it works), but this weekend at Wigan is going to be a big test. Jol has an uninterupted week to prepare and the players are going to be hurting and wanting to prove a point (at least, we hope so!). Add that the opposition are the dream combination of a struggling side who are committed to playing football rather than scrapping and all the ingredients should be there for a confidence boosting win. Mind you, Mrs Captain is in the other room watching the Great British Bake Off, and if that show has taught us anything, it's that you can have all the right ingredients and still end up with a soggy, disappointing, inedible mess. Let's see how much of a master baker Jol really is. And yes, I'm aware that I've given his naysayers a golden opportunity to be punningly abusive to him. Knock yourselves out, lads.
I suggest that you **** off, change your name and learn some common sense. I'm not happy with results either. Sacking Jol would further destabilise the club. I;ll bet you were calling for Hughes to be sacked last Xmas, before we got our second highest finish ever ! you sir, are an idiot. What we need is some stability (as we began to have under Hodgson, before Liverpool butted in). Now go and play Championship Manager or whatever fantasy game you believe in - you clearly can't deal with the real world.
In reply to Super Brian, you're right - they were meant to be emotive words, they were meant to get people talking. I knew some would agree and some disagree and discussion is good. Personally I am not convinced the players like Jol overly and most, although not all, of my Fulham supporting friends do not like him either. In his press conferences he appears not to give a stuff - very much like Sparky to be honest trotting out the we were unlucky or tired but I'm happy we are creating chances lines. I stand by the games comment - that's a fact. I think Sparky did know what he was doing and it showed in the second half of the season when things started to click into place. He did get us into Europe after all. He looked sharp and plausible. Jol just looks a bit dim. As I have said previously I don't want a messiah - I just want someone who will guide us to between 10th and 7th most years. That will be fine. I'd be happy with Lee Clark if he could do the job - note to all - I am not saying I want Lee Clark With all the proposed work on the Riverside Stand the last thing Mo will need is even the whiff of us going down so I believe, despite what he may say publicly and given the fact Jol blew £10 million plus on one player who has yet to do much in return, the pressure will be on and if it's us in the bottom three next month Jol will be on his bicycle back to Amsterdam.
People chill out, this is a board that promotes a healthy place to discuss things, opinions may differ but let's not forget we are all here because we all want the best for our club. As for our managerial situation, i just wanted to say that stability breeds success. Look at Fergie he was nearly out the door early but now look, look at the success of Wenger and to a lesser degree Tony Pulis at Stoke, who like us are premiership regulars. These teams have developed into the clubs that they are because they have stuck with their managers and hence built a squad over a long period of time to suit their style of play. We had it to a degree with Roy but he moved on. It took time and perceverance with Roy as it will with Big Mart. I think he will stick around if we give him the chance and develop a squad over some years that is capable of finishing in the top 10 year on year. COYW
In my earlier post, I forgot one critical question. Critical in the sense of 'being crucial' and also, yes, 'to lay the blame'. The question is, "why was Hughes brought on in the 90th minute?" I understand Grygera had a head injury but why Hughes, who Jol said post match could not start because he had a hamstring injury? In fact he only lasted about 3 minutes. And why in the centre placing Baird, who had been his usual Mr Dependable, to right back. So two immediate changes to the back four when one would have done. Or am I missing something and Kelly wasn't on the bench. Well we all saw the outcome of that 'tactical' change. Compare it to Moyes who brought on Saha, Cahill and Coleman. Now those were tactical substitutions. You might even have thought he was trying to win the game.
In reply to Fulhaman: There will always be players who will be resistant to his methods (the only two I can point to are Zamora and Murphy), but I can't agree that the majority of players seem to dislike him. As for us fans we are fickle, you just have to look at the Tigana years. He was brilliant until we started sweating that we might get relegated with his over indulgent passing game. (Barcelona stole that idea from us ) The facts about the 21 games, it is totally different playing against European teams than it is against Premier, so it does not create a consistent platform to blend in new players. At the end of the season it seemed that the club/players or Mark Hughes were desperate to keep us out of the Europa, as we seemed to be picking-up stupid yellow and red cards as soon as it was shown that we were winning the fair-play league. It's been said the players rarely saw Hughes, and Bowen and the large amount of coaches Hughes brought with him used to confuse players by arguing openly what tactics to use. Valjing that was not me saying Jol should walk away that was a quote from Fulhaman.
i know we have been going round and round on this subject, if you notice the 2 that have a problem with Jol are the 2 that played for Spurs. as for Ruiz being a £10million pound flop does anyone remember how many goals Bergkamp scored for arsenal in his first season and how long it took him to score his first goal? thats right he scored 11 goals in 33 games and it took him 7 games to score his first goal. he became an arsenal legend so now does Ruiz still seem like a flop after a few games?
S B Mc B. Old age brings confusion,much like Jols current tactics. Regarding does he go or stay.several hours following the Wigan game could be the decider. There are to many factors to be sentimental. If premiership status is lost, so is a large amount of revenue. It would probably scupper the ground improvements. Gates could dip. I say don`t be to hasty,but also don`t wait to long to wield the axe END OF NOV ?
Who would have thought 8 weeks ago that we would be behind QPR Norwich Swansea There is definitely something wrong.
So âFulhamâman whatâs your position now? One game has put us 3 points from last yearâs (second best ever) finish and 4 points from relegation. Conclusive? Progress? Disaster? Too early to say? I guess you still want to sack MJ? .......and appoint someone with less/no experience as a manager to 'take us to a different level' how's your championship manager/fantasy team doing ? tosser ! Valjing your quote: "Agree Fullhaman,pay Jol off Bring in Billy Mc Kinley till the early New Year,analyse his performances,and if need be get, shot of some of our under performing Prima Donas. We must and should preserve our premiership status,I amongst others,were hoping for a great season, what top 7 finish,cup, league cup,good Euro run." Well...... League cup is dead FA cup not even started â 2 months plus to go - so I don't know and neither do you Euro run, still there, look like qualifying for last 32 at least - is that good enough? - only been bettered once in history........ Top 7 â 6 points away at the moment, 28 games to go In case you are too stupid to understand: It's still too early to judge
My Fantasy team is doing quite well in my league at work, thanks for asking, but then I am managing it. Championship manager Team, no, bit too old to be playing computer games. Thanks for the personal insult - but then that's how some people respond who cannot see other people's point of view. It was nice to win yesterday - from what I saw on MOTD we were fortunate - and the match report on the BBC also said this - still, a win is a win and it was much needed. I don't think it is too early to judge Jol and firmly believe he should go as he hasn't done anything yet to change my opinion - of course that's not to say it can't be changed, but it hasn't yet. If come January we are sitting 5th in the league after an unbeaten run of 15 games then I will be happy to eat humble pie and admit I was wrong - but at the moment that looks like a dish that won't be being served up for me.
What if we're 10th? You can't honestly be serious and say he should walk if we're any lower than 5th after having been unbeaten for 15 games. This should be (I said this in the summer too) seen as transitional season, as long as we stay in the league and finish in a healthy position (upwards of 15th, say) we should be happy and aim much higher next season. As for your point of view, yours is difficult to swallow. You're suggesting we bin our manager after only, what, 4 months and bring in somebody totally inexperienced. That's not how clubs build any kind of success, that's a proven fact. What you're suggesting is a quintessential knee-jerk reaction, which is what football has far too much of these days. I respect your opinion for what it is, Fulhaman, and I'll level with you that our results and/or performances have not been up to scratch. But things have time to improve and I firmly believe they will. Jol is still our manager and Mo is likely to see that it remains that way until an appropriate time comes that enough is enough. We were worse off at Xmas last year than we are even now, this stands to reason. As I said, Jol is still in charge, so we should be Fulhamish and get behind him! COYW!
OK, so I'm a bit sceptical, but reckon that not allowing MJ some time to sort things out is totally counterproductive! Frankly, we've had too many managers over these past years, and the only one I was ectastic about leaving was Tbird Sanchez. It was a pity that Sir Roy had to go, but he'd probably not taken us to 5th; Hughes got ideas above his station (and ours); but are we really considering throwing out MJ now? Yes, I believe that MJ needs to sort out a few things about our shape and in particular a bit more "plan B" work, but he's working with what he's got. We are all entitled to our opinions, and it seems that the regulars here are polarising between pro and anti MJ. That is a pity, especially since its not even close to midway through the season. Back the team and the manager!
No, I'm not saying if we weren't 5th I'd be unhappy - I simply used that position to make a point. Come to think of it if we won 15 games on the trot we'd probably be top by quite some margin - and I have not said bring in someone inexperienced. And it's not simply the poor results, which any manager can get, it's a combination of things. 1) I was never a great fan of his - not even at Spurs. He looks too much like a bloke who, if he weren't a football manager, would spend Saturday afternoon watching sky sports in his vest and pants, smoking endless cigarettes and be surrounded by empty Pizza boxes and crushed cans of Carling. 2) He doesn't fill me with any confidence that he has any plan other than plan A 3) The timing of his substitutions are, to say the least, baffling - if they happen at all. 4) The players seem not to understand what he wants them to do 5) We have lost what we had of a cutting edge 6) All the stories in the paper regarding him making players unhappy aren't great news 7) I've not been over impressed by his transfers - why sign a guy who can't play in the Europa League? 8) Like Hughes he comes across as not giving two hoots about Fulham Of course all this is subjective to me but at the moment I just can't take to the guy. However, as I said, this doesn't mean I will never take to him. He's just got to do a lot better to win me over.
