Off Topic Colstons Statue - Again

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RedorDead said:
What a weird comparison with the Rochdale and Rotherham scenarios. There was public outrage there as well.

Do you think that it’s ok for women to be afraid to walk home alone? Or do you think that it’s about time that they stood up to be able to express their fear and hope that it changes?

Because you’re comparing it, it sounds like you don’t think they should voice their opinion on what they feel like.
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It's not a weird comparison at all, there was incredibly muted outrage, how many vigils were there? how many demos were there? The whole tragic situation is a national disgrace.

Of course I don't think it's ok for women to be afraid and I also don't think that it's ok for young girls to be afraid of being groomed, raped and abused on industrial scale, only to have the authorities including politicians trying to sweep it under the carpet at the altar of racial diversity, not my words the words of labour MP Naz Shah who retweeted saying that abuse victims should shut their mouths for the good of diversity.

I am saying that the problem is not a new problem and it is certainly not exclusively a white man problem and these national disgraces could and should have been a starting point for highlighting the problems facing women on a daily basis and even when several female MP's from all sides of the political spectrum tried to highlight this they were shut down by the left and liberals.

The whole debate about the safety of women needs to encompass all females in every walk of life and we should look to protect them all better than we do and not shy away from any of the causes for any reason whatsoever and that is not the case here.
 
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AshtonRed said:
If you don’t believe they were trouble makers why would you think they need to be moved on?, just leave them to disputes naturally, no force needed , no conflict, it’s not difficult. You suggesting the police were right implies they were trouble makers , why else would they need to use any form of force, especially in light of the original reason for the vigil.
It was obvious their strong arm actions were going to be brought into question and provocative images were going to be everywhere , either that was deliberate to point out the difficult position the Covid rules have put the police in or it was incompetence on behalf of Cressida Dick.
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So where do we draw the line with law breaking, which was what they were doing?
 
Jiffie said:
So where do we draw the line with law breaking, which was what they were doing?
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Every gain that has been achieved over the years has involved protest , if we’d banned protest , vigils etc we’d still be working down the mines with no holidays etc , we’d have no votes and women certainly wouldn’t have votes. There is a balance to be struck I agree , but unless there was violence to others, or threatening behaviour which may cause injury it’s a slippery slope once we stop this kind of thing. As I said I wasn’t there so can only go by what’s in the news, on balance it seems the police were heavy handed at least. As I said let them disperse naturally with no need for conflict
 
Jiffie said:
So where do we draw the line with law breaking, which was what they were doing?
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I accept the police are in a difficult position trying to in force Covid law which is ill thought through (due to lack of time for proper debate) and often impossible to police, I just think it could and should have been handled better.
 
AshtonRed said:
I accept the police are in a difficult position trying to in force Covid law which is ill thought through (due to lack of time for proper debate) and often impossible to police, I just think it could and should have been handled better.
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Of course the irony might even be, I wonder how many women were attacked in London because of the manpower deployed at Clapham common and of course the counter would be if the vigil wasn't policed, the police don't care about women's safety, the answer should have been the organisers should have suggested very local vigils and not mass protest.

The sad reality is but not in this particular case, if sentences were far heavier and especially attacks on women taken more seriously by the courts and women not have to have the ignominy of having lurid details of their private lives paraded before courts, then that would be a start, but I would also suspect some of the same agitators from last night would be against that as well.
 
AshtonRed said:
As I said I wasn’t there so can only go by what’s in the news, on balance it seems the police were heavy handed at least. As I said let them disperse naturally with no need for conflict
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the picture shows a thousand words ….. a woman on the floor with at least 2 officers on top of her ..it was a vigil, not a protest against police, I guess women with 1 hand holding their phone is easy pickings?
 
realred1952 said:
the picture shows a thousand words ….. a woman on the floor with at least 2 officers on top of her ..it was a vigil, not a protest against police, I guess women with 1 hand holding their phone is easy pickings?
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A vigil deemed subject to the law of the land as per high court ruling.
 
AshtonRed said:
Every gain that has been achieved over the years has involved protest , if we’d banned protest , vigils etc we’d still be working down the mines with no holidays etc , we’d have no votes and women certainly wouldn’t have votes. There is a balance to be struck I agree , but unless there was violence to others, or threatening behaviour which may cause injury it’s a slippery slope once we stop this kind of thing. As I said I wasn’t there so can only go by what’s in the news, on balance it seems the police were heavy handed at least. As I said let them disperse naturally with no need for conflict
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I said where do we draw the line and playing devils advocate, should the police ban protests by far right groups? or far left groups? that they know will descend into violence?
 
Jiffie said:
I said where do we draw the line and playing devils advocate, should the police ban protests by far right groups? or far left groups? that they know will descend into violence?
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It’s a Covid law only, so don’t see your point. Left or right is irrelevant. The debate is whether the police used the correct methods .
 
AshtonRed said:
Every gain that has been achieved over the years has involved protest , if we’d banned protest , vigils etc we’d still be working down the mines with no holidays etc , we’d have no votes and women certainly wouldn’t have votes. There is a balance to be struck I agree , but unless there was violence to others, or threatening behaviour which may cause injury it’s a slippery slope once we stop this kind of thing. As I said I wasn’t there so can only go by what’s in the news, on balance it seems the police were heavy handed at least. As I said let them disperse naturally with no need for conflict
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So was it a vigil or protest? Should any vigils be allowed during this pandemic? What is your balance?
 
I often walk or run around the downs but never after dark, even early evening it can be challenging. There are perverts who frequent the leafy area's and in the summer, it is not nice late evening.
I have had a few close shaves, but I am quite fit, not the fastest runner but enjoy running, stamina is my forte, runs are usually 7 -12k.
The Clapham event, well both sides have some questions to ask but bearing in mind the event was advertised days before and called off at short notice some were sure to miss that information or maybe go anyway. Were the police wrong? yes in what they did after dark. They allowed people to congregate, my friend was there until 6pm and it was all quiet when she left, about 300 people? she said was there.
 
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realred1952 said:
the picture shows a thousand words ….. a woman on the floor with at least 2 officers on top of her ..it was a vigil, not a protest against police, I guess women with 1 hand holding their phone is easy pickings?
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See clips of people holding signs chanting no justice no police **** he police. thats a protest and what are they protesting against? the nutter who did it is in custody and the police in the uk are not evil.
 
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realred1952 said:
the picture shows a thousand words ….. a woman on the floor with at least 2 officers on top of her ..it was a vigil, not a protest against police, I guess women with 1 hand holding their phone is easy pickings?
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Yes it does to those who only want to see what's in front of them!

This again is an issue with the media/social media, in that we only only ever see the end result. We do not see what what may have have occurred beforehand, what attempts the Police may or may not have made to get those on the vigil/illegal gathering to disperse peacefully and, unfortunately, people seem unwilling to look beyond the end of their noses!

I certainly don't know and I don't intend to vilify the actions of Police officers until I do. Maybe some others around would do well to entertain the same ethos!!
 
An interesting view from somebody who was actually there. I have highlighted two parts, the first part of course has not been publicised, obviously not sensational enough) part 2 why exactly would anybody feel the need to take spray paint to a vigil?

Words from a female officer in the Met at the vigil last night.
Officers don’t make the rules they just try their best to uphold them they certainly don’t get it right all the time but the vast majority do their best
Tonight’s Vigil for Sarah. A female officers point of view..
It started with mainly only female officers overlooking a civil vigil. When numbers grew and social distancing seized more officers were called.
When police officers tried to crowd control and remove people from stamping on flowers for Sarah they refused. Then it kicked off
Then I saw people being arrested and my colleagues being assaulted when trying to transport said prisoner.
Then I saw our vehicles being vandalised with spray with the word ACAB and a mirror being smashed.
Then I thought what would Sarah’s family think about this?
Then I saw and heard my colleagues being abused. They were called murderes, rapists, a female colleague was told it should have been her. And we were told to arrest each other. This is not ok.
Sarah’s family and friends have been so gracious under the circumstances. I do not believe they would want this to happen. If it was me I would not want this to happen. Stop think and be civil we are all humans and we all are angry at what happened. We do not need more violence.
I am a woman. I am a police officer. I am very proud of being both. This week has me exhausted. Physically from the job and mentally by all this.
We are not at fault for what happened because if we knew we would have done what we could to stop it.
To finalise this rant, to my colleagues: I am proud of you. You were insulted beyond what we are used to. We stand by our uniform, we’re proud to carry this warrant card so we can uphold the great office of Constable. Thank you for being there today hope you are all ok.
 
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remembergou said:
I often walk or run around the downs but never after dark, even early evening it can be challenging. There are perverts who frequent the leafy area's and in the summer, it is not nice late evening.
I have had a few close shaves, but I am quite fit, not the fastest runner but enjoy running, stamina is my forte, runs are usually 7 -12k.
The Clapham event, well both sides have some questions to ask but bearing in mind the event was advertised days before and called off at short notice some were sure to miss that information or maybe go anyway. Were the police wrong? yes in what they did after dark. They allowed people to congregate, my friend was there until 6pm and it was all quiet when she left, about 300 people? she said was there.
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Do you know what? I agree with every single word of this, I am sorry that you have problems whilst just out for a run, the Downs has been a magnet for perverts since I was a kid back in the 50's/60's.

I agree about maybe the problem was allowing them to congregate in the first place, I have just put up a post from a female police officer who was there on duty and initially it was policed purely by police women and then the atmosphere changed and things began to become aggressive and from there it escalated.
 
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