CL - What's the point

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vimhawk

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2011
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This is going to sound like sour grapes but really not intended to be. We're not going through to the last 16 because we don't deserve to, no arguments. This is intended to be a thread to discuss the relative merits of being in the CL.

My personal experience is that I can't afford to go to many matches. This season I made the effort to get me and my son to the CL match at "home" against Bayer L. As I've said, this was quite a significant expenditure for me, so I was hoping for some good entertainment. We certainly enjoyed the experience to a certain extent and there was a good atmosphere before the match. Unfortunately we were also treated to a very disappointing performance but more importantly we were treated to some not very pleasing tactics by an experienced CL side. Which is the main point of this posting and sorry it's taken so long to get round to it.

I didn't time how long we spent watching the opposition writhing around on the floor because they'd been slightly touched, but it was significant and far more than the ref awarded as extra time. But that's the point isn't it - there's always a degree of desperation added by going over 90 regardless of how much time you have extra, and that tends to suit the team that has manufactured the extra time. Also the ref will never add on the true total of extra time he should over five or six minutes, and I believe we were due way way more than that. Sure you can say that however much extra we had we'd never have scored but that is not my point. I am arguing the principle of it with reference to this particular match, not how it would have affected that one match. So with my hard earned we watched the antics of an experienced CL team running down the clock and apparently Spurs have a lot to learn in the CL.

But learn what? Learn to feign injury? Learn to stamp on people and not get noticed? Learn to generally time waste and "be clever" - because all that is cheating as far as I'm concerned and that is something I'd rather not be learning. And UEFA and the pundits will never address this for what it is or stop it. And meanwhile the main cheating going on is cheating the public out of watching good football.

So yes we potentially could have beaten all the teams in our group, and the reason we didn't is certainly not to do with these antics - but it certainly didn't help. And if that is what you are going to see in the CL then I want nothing to do with it. Give me the PL any day, because apart from lots of money I can't think of a good reason for being in the CL (especially since probably only three teams can actually win it), and even that amount of money isn't enough to compete with the dodgily financed "top" teams anyway!
 
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Tobes said:
To summarise;

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Then it's a poor summary. You never know, one day we might see how Everton cope with it, you were incredible (in the literal sense) the last time.
 
Part and parcel of European teams, Vim.

Just have to try and find ways around allowing them to manipulate things to their advantage. Easier said than done unfortunately. Though that said, we went out deservedly as you say so I'd rather just forget about CL for the time being <laugh>.
 
SpursDisciple said:
Then it's a poor summary. You never know, one day we might see how Everton cope with it, you were incredible (in the literal sense) the last time.
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Come on mate, he can't moan about gamesmanship and the like, you were simply poor in the games you've played in that comp this season.

Last night could have been 5 or 6 and you couldn't have moaned, as they outplayed you, fair and square.

I thought you'd do well tbh this season, as you're usually tight at the back and I thought that'd be enough to see you through to the latter stages of the CL.

You were pretty dire last night, against a decent but not fantastic Monaco side.

Do you want to win in the last game and go into the EL, or sack it off?
 
Tobes you've missed the point. I'm not moaning about gamesmanship costing us qualification, I'm moaning about gamesmanship as a feature of the CL and asking if the CL experience is all that it's cracked up to be. But it's entirely predictable that you think I'm making excuses when one of the first things I said was that we deserved to go out!
 
vimhawk said:
Tobes you've missed the point. I'm not moaning about gamesmanship costing us qualification, I'm moaning about gamesmanship as a feature of the CL and asking if the CL experience is all that it's cracked up to be. But it's entirely predictable that you think I'm making excuses when one of the first things I said was that we deserved to go out!
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I don't think it's any different in that regard to the PL mate. Given that the vast majority of the players in our league are now from overseas anyway, it's as much part of our game as it is the CL.

As for the CL itself, I reckon Leicester fans might challenge your view on that today. As with all footie it's great when you're winning.
 
Tobes said:
I don't think it's any different in that regard to the PL mate. Given that the vast majority of the players in our league are now from overseas anyway, it's as much part of our game as it is the CL.

As for the CL itself, I reckon Leicester fans might challenge your view on that today. As with all footie it's great when you're winning.
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It was a poor summary cause in no way was he blaming it for our getting knocked out. To me he just observed it was worse in the CL than in the prem. As a football fan it is frustrating when the ref buys a ludicrous dive (probably the difference to the Prem, the refs don't buy as much). However it is probably better to make these observations when you've just won.
 
Tobes said:
I don't think it's any different in that regard to the PL mate. Given that the vast majority of the players in our league are now from overseas anyway, it's as much part of our game as it is the CL.
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It's definitely worse in Europe and there are a few things which UEFA need to adopt, in my opinion.

The first is the new Premier League rules about dealing with the officials, though they're becoming more lax by the game.
It's not that noticeable now, as we've got used to it, but the switch to European football brings it back into focus.
Nobody wants to watch a bunch of players crowding the ref or shouting at the linesman. It's ****.

The second would be to allow players to be treated while the game continues.
Go down and roll around for five minutes? Probably not, if it's going to cost your team.

The third is removing the multiball thing. It's a massive home advantage.
The ball takes a lot longer to get to the away team when they're pushing, then it does to the home side in similar circumstances.
 
It's the pinnacle of club football.

It's far from perfect though.

We know UEFA wanted a European Super League and the competition in its present, bloated form is the compromise. It's devalued to some extent by the 4th placed teams from some countries having a realistic chance of winning it (hardly elite), but we all know money is the reason behind trying to ensure that the leading clubs are omnipresent every season. Utd and AC Milan are doing a good job of undermining that aim though.
 
Yep, both Monaco and Leverkusen`s players were a bunch of over reacting divers, as well as time wasters once they gained the lead. It was frustrating to witness, which only made our dire CL performances even worse to watch.

On a side note, our draw was rather unkind in the grand scheme of things. Monaco were in pot 4 with whipping boys like Celtic, Rostov and Copenhagen etc. Monaco are a decent side and probably the worst we could have drawn, they are the leading scorers in all of Europe and recently beat PSG. Having said that, our performances probably would have meant an early exit regardless of who we played.
 
Tobes said:
Come on mate, he can't moan about gamesmanship and the like, you were simply poor in the games you've played in that comp this season.

Last night could have been 5 or 6 and you couldn't have moaned, as they outplayed you, fair and square.

I thought you'd do well tbh this season, as you're usually tight at the back and I thought that'd be enough to see you through to the latter stages of the CL.

You were pretty dire last night, against a decent but not fantastic Monaco side.

Do you want to win in the last game and go into the EL, or sack it off?
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Sack it off..waste of my ****in time.
 
To me, qualification for the Champions League is not so much about having a chance to win that competition (for now at least) but to give us a better chance to attract the kind of player that will help us compete for the Premier League title year after year. Were we to get to that position consistently, then we could start focusing on winning the Champions League when we qualified.

Levy has now had 2 opportunities to bring in some serious quality. The first time he got lucky with VdV at the 11th hour (and on the cheap) but should have done more. This time he blew most of it on a player we all knew had under-performed for Newcastle and an unproven Dutch striker.
 
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gericalo said:
To me, qualification for the Champions League is not so much about having a chance to win that competition (for now at least) but to give us a better chance to attract the kind of player that will help us compete for the Premier League title year after year. Were we to get to that position consistently, then we could start focusing on winning the Champions League when we qualified.

Levy has now had 2 opportunities to bring in some serious quality. The first time he got lucky with VdV at the 11th hour (and on the cheap) but should have done more. This time he blew most of it on a player we all knew had under-performed for Newcastle and an unproven Dutch striker.
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I shudder to think how bad that season would've been had we not landed Rafa. To think that we were so naive!
 
gericalo said:
To me, qualification for the Champions League is not so much about having a chance to win that competition (for now at least) but to give us a better chance to attract the kind of player that will help us compete for the Premier League title year after year. Were we to get to that position consistently, then we could start focusing on winning the Champions League when we qualified.

Levy has now had 2 opportunities to bring in some serious quality. The first time he got lucky with VdV at the 11th hour (and on the cheap) but should have done more. This time he blew most of it on a player we all knew had under-performed for Newcastle and an unproven Dutch striker.
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Does anyone really think that Levy chooses our signings? He might set the budget but surely doesn't make the decisions.
We are way above average in improving the squad on signings but mostly by unearthing good players cheaply (Rose, Walker, Dier, Alli). The mistakes are usually £20m to £30m players where there is much more risk and no club really does well on average with those. We could really do with signing one or two players above £40m but I don't think we can afford it and I'm not sure anyone was available.
 
When you're losing 0-1 after 90 minutes in the CL final and score twice in injury time to win, it is the most wonderful thing.

Not good though if you've got a weak heart or if you don't want to wake up the next day with a hangover.
 
The CL is the holy grail of club football. It's where all players wanna play and all dream of winning.

We weren't good enough and must learn. Hopefully we will be back in again soon.
 
KingHotspur said:
The CL is the holy grail of club football. It's where all players wanna play and all dream of winning.

We weren't good enough and must learn. Hopefully we will be back in again soon.
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This is the thing about people banging on about winning the FA Cup: winning the FA Cup isn't going to improve the club either on the pitch or on the spreadsheet, playing in the Champions League (in theory...) will.
 
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