Cant be 100% sure as I dont pay attention to who refs their games but Clattenberg went 12 months without reffing a Liverpool game. If I could be bothered and I cant, I think I have got a few things slightly wrong already but tbh I am not to fussed, the point still stands..... If I could be bothered I could find more examples of refs who go long periods without reffing certain teams.
I hadn't thought of it like that To use Freudian Theory though, there is no such thing as coincidence. All non-United fans with their heads buried in he sand can see the bias
No, no they dont. I dont speak for most football fans like your good self DL but I would suggest that 1 or 2 are not crazy and I may even go as far to suggest they have the dignity to not stoop to such depths. Only 1 or 2 mind, you do of course speak for all non United fans but its possible you missed a few
Which is the more common occurence: A regular Premier League ref is the 4th official in a Premier League or Championship game or a regular Premier League ref drops down to League Two? Clattenburg was the 4th official for Saturday's game, then took charge of QPR v West Ham on Monday. He reffed one Championship game last season and nothing lower. He hasn't taken charge of a 4th tier game since 2006, despite his legal problems. See the pattern here? Where are the media reporting this third strike thing? Can you provide a link, please?
Maybe he has. I'm not saying United are the only ones that have ever benefited, just that the smaller teams tend not to. We had Foy 2 months after he screwed us over and Wigan had Dowd again for the corresponding United fixture after he sent Dowd off for nothing.
Martin Lipton of the mirror I never said it was common, just normal for them to do the occasional game, which it is. Most PL refs have done so occasionally. If anything foys probably overdue seeing as its been 4 years. http://www.chester-city.co.uk/september08matches.asp Second match down, who is the referee? Was he a member of the select 16? Next
Who was the ref that gave Sunderland that goal v Liverpool, infact he gave basically everything. Stuart Atwell??? He got kicked out of the select 16 Anyway that shows that its not always big clubs that benefit, well the bigger clubs anyway.
You've actually damaged your own argument with that one. "Everyone knew the name of the referee before this game. Mark Halsey had been supposedly demoted from the Premier League for having the temerity to send the England captain off the previous weekend." Following that logic, it seems clear that Foy's been relegated for not giving Man Utd the rub of the green, which you're claiming isn't the case.
I'm not saying that big clubs are the only ones that get incorrect decisions go for them but when they go against bigger teams they get bigger punishments.
The match report is not important. It written by 'somebody' on the internet. What I was showing was that PL refs do occasionally take charge of league 2 games. Which has been my argument, or part of it from the off.
Atkinson was demoted to a 4th official for blowing his whistle while Everton were on the attack in the 3-3 draw with................................Manchester United. I think its fair to say United are bigger than everton ( no disrespect ).
The match report isn't important, but the fact that Halsey was relegated for dismissing John Terry clearly is. Foy's being punished, just as Halsey was, which totally undermines what you're saying.
Atkinson wasn't demoted at all. He didn't have to take charge of a single lower tier game for the next 6 months. That game was on 11/9/10 and his next Championship game was QPR v Palace on 12/3/11. As I've already shown, Premier League refs also do stints as the 4th official on a weekly basis. It's completely normal and not something that happens every 4 or 6 years.
I've long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football. Iâm not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I'm downright skeptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, and media or football institutions. It's not me being paranoid either: week after week, Iâm proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise). When it comes to football, it's not even lack of trust. It's plain common sense. In recent years, we've had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain's second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc... Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean. Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize monies in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long? To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for 2 of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country's institutions. To them, itâs entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but itâs impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicenter of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England. I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP's expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all...) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too? I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefits from refereeing decisions. I donât need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off. I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Fergusonâs fatherâs friend Tony Pullis, also recalled their loan players from PNE. The message was clear: Mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished. And not just from Mr Ferguson either. By his friends in football. Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that âThe FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the pastâ. Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games. Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of. The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deem to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). Itâs a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignement led to the Juventus scandal in 2006. Winterâs comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United 2 biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so. Alain Wiley refereed Unitedâs 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained. Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being âfat and unfitâ. The game ended 2-2. That would be the end of Wileyâs refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, âagreed to retireâ at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows. Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul. There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one. It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesnât want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder whoâs behind that decision. The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: heâs been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City. Webbâs history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties heâs awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, thatâs a huge percentage. So in closing, letâs resume what weâve discovered. We have an ex premier league referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said refereeâs words, donât hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized. We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and âagreed to retireâ a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasnât been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago. Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Fergusonâs team. Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Allistair Campbellâs diaries if you donât believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into. But yet, nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes Unitedâs way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance. In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In "so much cleaner than everywhere else" England, weâre paranoid. Why is that? Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdochâs Sky live off the premier league. So do his other publications like the Sun. The English mediaâs last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows. Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cowâs biggest cash cow, would also be devastating. So itâs all swept under the tabled and every refereeing decision shrugged off. âThey even themselves outâ weâre told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection. God knows what would happen to them if they investigate Unitedâs behind the scenes dealings. Maybe, like Preston, theyâll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too __________________ Twitter - https://twitter.com/#!/Stephen_Cooper_
Can't agree more with notsosmartspur. I've had endless arguments with people about this kind of thing myself. One of my arguments being that England is as corrupt as Russia and English Football is as corrupt as Italian Football, the media will cover it up but many of us know what really goes on, I don't think anybody that actually goes/went to games disbelieved Liverpool's story re: Hillsborough. I never for one second doubted that the blame wasn't to lie with them and was to lie with the police/FA. That's just one example but notsosmartspur has hit the nail on the head so there's nothing else to be said really.
Can't say I subscribe to all of that, Notso. With regards to media investigations, Panorama exposed bungs and not too long ago exposed foreign ownerships with Bryan Robson of United getting caught out, as well as Fergie himself getting some quite serious allegations made about him. Why they never formally investigated Fergie after the allegation was made that he told that rich guy who to bet on in football games I don't know. For the record, whether he did it or not it was easy enough for him to get out of, the guy would've clearly changed his story to say he was exaggerating to impress the undercover reporter. There was also the fake sheik looking to expose the then England manager, Sven, presumably for corruption although in the end he just got him naming players he could sign if they bought Villa for him. I'd have thought there are some others too. Most of what you said about referees is what I believe too. United are the most powerful club in the country and SAF the most powerful manager so they're the most extreme example of benefiting from a weak FA. SAF will stamp his feet, moan and get fined but they don't want to seriously piss him or the club off and risk the biggest club in the World wanting out of the FA and PL. Out and out corruption's a step too far for me when there's no evidence but there is definitely a select stable of referees that the FA and PL will consider for United(and to a lesser extent other clubs) games and they're decided by them not making bad calls that negatively affect United. The trouble with that is that poor decisions that go for United aren't counted against them in terms of selection for their games and you end up with refs knowing that their career can be affected by giving decisions against United, whilst giving decisions to United will not. Consciously or subconsciously that's bound to affect their judgement on 50/50 calls and arguably a lot more. In short it's a totally flawed system, just like referees having to admit mistakes for further punishment of a player to be made(Rooney elbow, etc).
Notsosmartspur you also forgot 06/07 when Allardyce took charge of a 2-2 draw with Chelsea which coincidentally ended our title chances and then resigned immediately after the game smugly declaring he'd be having a drink with Ferguson after the game. It was a clear tactical ploy to make sure the team wasn't unsettled. You also forgot 07/08 when Dave Whelan (friend of Ferguson) declared his preference for United to win the league over Chelsea only 24 hours before his club were scheduled to play them.
Whilst we're on refs, one has just been arrested for hacking and leaking information to the media. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19808766
The ironic thing about some sets of fans accusing United of corruption or whatever is that there own clubs have form for corruption. The irony is just too perfect. So yes there has always been a feeling that something iffy is going on in English football. Clubs like Chelsea, Pompey, Bolton and more are usually where people look and investigate such dodgy goings on.
