The form of that Hennessy, even if he had won it, would be nowhere near what is required to win a Gold Cup. He was struggling to live with Madison Du Berlais, Air Force One and Snoopy Loopy off more or less level weights (OK MdB was getting 3lbs from him, AFO levels and SL was giving him 5lbs). Look at the subsequent performances of those horses and you will see that none of them were anywhere near Gold Cup winners.
I think Big Bucks' style just meant that fences detracted from his strengths. He is very much a momentum horse, and also he is described as 'lazy' by Nicholls. I think chasing demands a lot more 'battle', because the horse has to put bigger jumps in and the fences stop their headway/momentum that they carry between obstacles. Hurdles are different and Big Bucks seems to lose no momentum at all. Ruby reckons he has the pace to run in a Champion Hurdle- that would be something! I can see why people want him to go chasing, because he is an amazing animal. Maybe he just wasn't suited? Then again, no chaser is perfect intitially. Long Run is a good example, and maybe if Big Bucks ironed out the mistakes like LR did, he could be a big player?
Have to agree with Oddy. Fences do not play to to his strengths in that he was abject at negotiating them. He could well be better now,no doubt about that and he has a terrific engine. What is also patently clear is that the World Hurdle,totally ridiculous nomenclature for the race btw,is for horses who have failed at chasing and are too slow for the Champion Hurdle. Big Bucks would not be in this division if he could fence. Interesting comment from Ruby that he has the speed for the CH. He clearly knows what he's talking about but when a 141 handicapper had BB off the bridle in a 3m 1f hurdle for a period from Swinley Bottom to the home turn it makes you wonder whether he would not get tapped for toe in the CH. Fascinating that he is being discussed as good enough for both the CGC and CH. Dawn Run he certainly is not. I wouldn't touch him in either race and I very much doubt I will have the opportunity.
Pretty unequivocal statement from Paul Nicholls on the Sporting Life website this morning: "He won't ever go over fences now, he doesn't like them and I wouldn't want to risk him. He is too good at that job. It's funny, if the Hennessy hadn't happened who knows what I would have done with Kauto Star and Denman around."
I don't know how this has never really occured to me before. I only got into racing after Big Bucks had reverted to hurdles, so I've not seen that Hennessey, and didn't realise how good he was over fences. A real machine, and probably my favourite horse (especially after last year's Aintree performance - so unbelievably easy, and against Grands Crus as well). There's an article on the front of today's racing post with Oscar Whisky's owner, indicating how much of a challenge they think he could be. I actually rate Oscar Whisky a lot, and think that he represents an exceptional challenger to Big Buck's this season - I am very glad that Nicky Henderson is taking this fighting approach and not running away from it. It's a bit like Grands Crus really - one more season before going chasing, why not have a go at some real glory? Oscar Whisky will, I hope, be Big Buck's biggest challenge of the last three years. I'd quite like to see Oscar Whisky go for the Champion Hurdle at Cheltenham and then the Liverpool Hurdle and Big Buck's at Aintree, although that might be a training difficulty. One thing is for certain. Biggest challenger of the last three years or not, when they do meet, Barry Geraghty will only be able to watch in amazement as Ruby Walsh's back disappears into the distance at the finish.
Watch out for Cross Kennon. This thread has developed neatly for a mention for this 7 year old - beaten just 5 lengths by Big Bucks in the World Hurdle last March and staying on up the hill better than anything, tried over fences this term and couldn't get on with the larger obstacles and now reverts back to hurdles and no doubt for another crack at Cheltenham. No idea what price he would be for the race but is capable of pushing BB all the way...
On the topic of horses that we think are able to push Big Bucks, I have put together list of realistic challengers. Here it is:
I do agree 100% though. It is impossible to see him being beaten unless something dramatically changes between now and March. I'm not even sure if Big Buck's having a leg amputated would suffice . . . !
Like Zen it's hard to disagree with that one! One thing I think is missing in racing these days is match races. Many years ago (long before I was around) I think there was a massive clamour for a match race in Ireland between Captain Christy and Dawn Run which happened and the mare won. Of course long before that we'd had the great Seabiscuit and War Admiral in a match race. Now, if ever a horse could hypothetically compete in a match race Big Bucks would surely be one. Imagine Andy Stewart throwing in half the prize money and Clive Smith the other half. Winner takes all over 3 miles over the fixed-brush hurdles between KS and BB. Or even Hurricane Fly against BB over 2.5 miles... the mind boggles at these pointless, hypothetical match races I've just invented
Oddog.....You are being incredibly naive, so what if the form of that seasons Hennessy wasn't up to much, was the form of Long Runs defeat in the Paddy Power up to much? Either way I actually don't think the form was to bad, Madison De Berlais went on to win the G1 Aintree bowl, that season. BB was only a 5yo and he had barely jumped a fence properly, yet he was still in contention going to the last, baring in mind Gold Cup horse's usually don't come into there prime until between 7-9 I think BB had plenty of time on his side. Long Run has had bad jumping days, and many people wanted him to go down the World Hurdle route, check out how he jumped in the RSA or Paddy Power, he was awful, but sooner or later most of the time they will learn eventually. BB was not given sufficient time to learn because Paul Nicholls already had KS and Denman
Shergar yesterday: "He destroyed Albertas Run over fences at Aintree, and Albertas Run had just won the RSA, so BB was arguably the number 1 staying novice chaser of his generation" Shergar today: "BB was only a 5yo and he had barely jumped a fence properly" So in April at Aintree he destroyed his rivals and was arguably the number 1 staying novice chaser of his generation, yet 7 months later at Newbury the poor wee lamb had barely jumped a fence properly? He had clearly regressed
The Hennessy form was moderate. PN has stated today that BB will not jump fences because "he doesn't like them"..ergo he can't cope with steeplechasing. The Stayers hurdle will always play fourth fiddle to the three proper and original championship races at the festival.There is no doubt BB will farm the race,that is ultimately the hub of the too slow and too sloppy jumpers,since it will always be an after thought when a horse has proved inferior to its optimal task. BB is such a horse,as admitted by his owner and trainer. To elevate the race and BB to ridiculous positons in the pantheon of all time great events/champions is delusionary,disingenious and frankly fanciful.
I think the form of the Hennessy is pretty irrelevant as BB was a baby 5yo and was lumping 11.7. Had he not unseated at the last he would have been heralded as something special. Who knows what would have happened after that. Thankfully (I suppose) PN's statement has made any further speculation a bit pointless.
Oddog....Stop talking absolute rubbish, Ruby Walsh even said after he beat Albertas Run at Aintree, that he barely jumped a fence, and Paul Nicholls confirmed that comment from Ruby in his post race interview on Saturday. So BB had jumped badly, yet his engine was big enough to cope with the bad jumping and still overcome the RSA winner. Horses of 5 and 6 rarely jump fences well, and need time to practise and improve, and tend to reach there prime by the time there 7 or 8, hence why Long Run is the only horse younger than 7 to win a Gold Cup since the 1960s. If they had continued training BBs as a chaser, he would have been a top class chase, if you need proof of that, look at Long Run, no one would have given him a chance in the Gold Cup the following year after he uprooted half the fences, and could only manage 3rd in the RSA as a 5yo but with a years more experience under his belt, and plenty of practice, he was a completely different horse the following year. I'm not saying for them to go chasing now, as I believe they've missed the boat, there's not enough time to get chase r'experience into him, for a crack at the GC aged 9, and by the time he's 10 he will be over the hill as far as Gold Cup trends are concerned
