Excellent debate on here guys - we don't all agree, but well put points of view. Shame the idiot who sent Jessica Ennis abusive (sexual/rape) tweets could not do the same
I don't think you can really comment on the mans guilt though unt you have read the facts of the case which are ridiculous to think there was ever a guilty verdict. Especially given the inconsistency that his mate was not guilty despite being there and also having sex with her! When you appeal a decision, you are needing people to stand up and say "we were wrong, and didn't do our job properly" which I don't know any walk of life where people do that, especially in criminal cases where you are liable for damages. Scenario A: A woman willingly gets in a taxi with a young man she has just met to a hotel. She is wearing high heel shoes that cat walk models would struggle in fully sober let one supposedly completely incapacitated. She is sober enough to pick a pizza box up off the pavement, walk without any stumbling and talk to two members of hotel night staff who claim she did not seem drunk enough to be unable to know what she was doing. She goes to the hotel room and sleeps with two men she knows to be professional footballers, when she wakes up in the morning they are gone. She cannot remember as to whether she gave consent or not but doesn't think she was sober enough to know whether it was a good idea even if she did give consent. So therefore calls the police to claim rape. Scenario B: A woman walking home from work is followed by s disgusting opportunist who sees someone he can physically manipulate. Bides his time until they are out of sight on a dark night and drags her into an alley, with a knife to her neck he rips her clothes and brutally rapes her leaving her defiled and traumatised for life. So which one is really rape? Not remembering whether you gave consent despite all prior witness and video evidence showing you clearly went to a hotel with two men you have admitted knowing were footballers of the vile scenario 'B'? If we convict Ched half of the professional footballers in this country need locking up as well as 70% of male university students and nightclub attendees!
Yes this exactly.. if any of you haven't seen the cctv footage of the girl entering a premier inn with both men it is available online, Having read the (one sided admittedly) facts of this case on The Ched Evans website this seems more a case of regret than rape to me, but he was found guilty for some reason? Its all the A scenarios listed above that are muddying the waters for women who are raped in the B scenarios and making convictions in those cases harder to get.
I think there are two separate debates here in my eyes; 1. Definition of sexual consent 2. Should convicted football sexual offenders be allowed to continue their profession on the pitch In point 1. - I have no knowledge of the case so cannot comment on his guilt or innocence, however, I believe he was found guilty by the same system as every other criminal. Therefore point 2. comes into play for me, whereas i believe that as professional footballers are expected to be involved in community work and have close contact with women and children, and i'm applying this to all footballers not just Ched, then maybe to give more clarity they should have to go through an enhanced record check when employed/transferred, as is required in many roles in the community when working with young and vulnerable people. Remembering these players go into places like hospitals. You can't work in a hospital without an enhanced check. I know Ched could opt out of the community profile side of things, but as a footballer it is more of an expectation than a choice. So from my perspective my debate is not really about Ched but learning from the situation as a whole and ensuring there is better future clarity within the football league, to prevent this from escalating to situations as we now see with Jessica Ennis. The thing i believe with my suggestion this will not just apply to rapists but also murderers and many other convictions, that will then force footballers to be the very role models they are supposed to portray. Surely that can only be a good thing.
This is worth a read at least for this who have not seen it. "On 20 April 2012 Chedwyn Evans, a 23 year old professional footballer, was convicted of rape at Caernarfon Crown Court. On Friday 17th October at 5am he was released from custody and will continue the fight to clear his name. Chedwyn Evans maintains his absolute innocence and his family, friends and many who know the true facts of the case believe that his conviction was a gross miscarriage of justice. On 15 July 2014 Ched’s new legal team David Emanuel of Garden Court Chambers London and Shaun Draycott submitted an application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission which is the first step to a second appeal. They are confident in their submission. We believe that due to Ched’s profession, information that was not used by his original defence and other information that has been gathered since his conviction will in time overturn a wrongful conviction. For those who only read the media reports, this website endeavours to redress the balance by presenting the evidence in a balanced and accurate manner so that the public can assess the salient facts and make their own judgement. From the outset we would like to state that this website in no way seeks to undermine the seriousness of rape or trivialise the suffering that rape victims suffer. We recognise that rape is a terrible crime which, if committed, ought to carry a severe sentence. This website is not about the severity of the sentence, we are stating that Ched did not commit the crime of rape at all. Furthermore, we recognise and acknowledge that in rape cases the anonymity of the victim is a fundamental legal principle that should be upheld and respected. When reading this website these fundamental points should be kept in mind: It should be noted that the complainant who was alleged to have been raped in this case stated when interviewed by the police and subsequently maintained in Court that she could not remember anything at all, other than a very brief period in a take-away. She remembers being in the night club and waking up the next morning in the Premier Inn, a time span that specifically covers the entire sexual activity which led to Ched being convicted of rape and his co-accused Clayton McDonald acquitted. The only evidence of what sexual activity occurred came from the accounts of his co-accused Clayton McDonald who also had sex with the complainant and was found not guilty of rape, Ched, and the night porter who was listening outside the room. As this case revolves around the issue of intoxication and consent, it should be noted that it is established in the case of R V Bree that drunken consent to sexual intercourse is nevertheless consent in the eyes of the law. This does not mean that if a person is unconscious through drink or drugs it is acceptable to have sex with that person but rather, where an intoxicated person is functioning and able to make conscious decisions at the time of intercourse and then subsequently regrets that decision and decides to make a complaint of rape, her self-inflicted intoxication ought not to be considered as relevant to the issue of consent. The police arrested both Ched and Clayton at the station, they acknowledged that the only evidence that sexual activity had taken place was their admission. There was no complaint of rape, no forensic evidence, no injury and no complaint. Finally it should be noted that the burden of proof in criminal law lies with the Prosecution and that in order to gain a conviction the Prosecution must prove ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that a crime was committed i.e. the Jury has to be sure an offence has taken place. Essentially, this means that following the submissions of the Prosecution if there remains any doubt that a crime has been committed the accused must be acquitted. It is not for the accused to prove his innocence. With the above in mind please read the following key facts and make up your own mind. If you are a football fan, please put aside your affiliations and assess this case on its own merits."
I read it that she gave one content whilst pissed (hence he didn't get done) but Ched Evans entered the flat after and went in for some. All I look at it is through a fathers eyes, builder stockbroker footballer all would mean nothing to me, if someone hurt my daughter like that I would be going off my ****ing head if they was nearby or in the limelight. Jessica Ellis speaks out http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jessica-ennis-speaking-out-rapist-ched-evans
Can appreciate that ROD but there is no evidence or proof to suggest that she was raped. As politically incorrect as it may sound, why aren't people asking the question including her parents "why are you going to hotels with blokes you have just met? We brought you up better than that didn't we?". Also if Clayton and Ched were also under the influence of alcohol isn't there the debate they were not if sound mind or judgement to make conscious decision and therefore this woman is liable for prosecution due to sexual assault? It's double standards of a society that think women are completely innocent here when it isn't always the case like in this situation. This was consensual sex between drunken adults, nothing more. It's not the same as saying "don't dress like a tart and this won't happen" as that's just disgusting and misogynistic. It's s case of "don't go so so far out of your way to put yourself in compromising positions" i.e getting paralytic, getting in taxis with men you don't know, going to a hotel room with people you don't know. That goes for everyone not just this case, but this girl did everything willingly and her father should be questioning her daughters morale values as much as the actions of the men involved!
I started this thread as I thought from my reading of the situation that there was a case to answer here i.e. was it rape as most of us understand it. The problem is that rape technically encompasses so much but it still seems to be interpreted and demonised by many as forced and violent sex. I can only hope that any appeal brings clarity to this particular case as I feel uncomfortable with the outcome and its implications. Also because of its complexity I think "associated personalities" should stay out of it as it may yet go one way or the other, and whether they like it or not those personalities will get associated with the final verdict. I do however congratulate this board on a reasoned and informed debate which takes in all viewpoints.
I'm annoyed that the Blades have caved in over this. The situation has now become a cause celebre and has been hyped up by the media beyond all reason. Evans was found guilty, sentenced, served the sentence that the law dictates and now should be allowed to get on with his career. Are we going to deny employment opportunities to all those who have been convicted of a crime? In addition, the double standards between Evans' case and others are unbelievable. Where were all the bleeding hearts when Luke McCormick re-signed for Plymouth Argyle when he came out of prison? McCormick killed two little boys, brothers who were 8 and 10 years old whilst driving his Range Rover pissed out of his head - now he's Argyle's club captain. I don't know about you but taking the lives of two little boys is a hell of a lot worse than non-consensual sex in my book. And Lee Hughes? He killed someone, left someone else in a wheelchair as well as convictions for assault. Marlon King has an unbelievable list of convictions including sexual assault, breaking a woman's nose, wounding, two hit and runs causing serious injury yet he's still playing and for Sheffield United too - the same club that the likes of Paul Heaton, Jessica Ennis and others are queuing up to criticise. That's the trouble with these media bandwagons - once they gather momentum all sense of perspective is lost. Evans did a very bad thing, but he's done his time and others have done far, far worse without anywhere near the same amount of censure. Total hypocrisy and they should leave the bloke alone.
I must admit my opinion on this has changed over the last couple of weeks, my initial reaction was he has served his time he should be allowed to get on with his job, however as I work in a job that requires a DBS Check (Formerly CRB) then I believe Evans would fail this because of the nature of his crime and his close proximity to the public. I know the question of his guilt has been debated however I dont think that is relevant in this instance unless he successfully gets the verdict overturned. Interesting point about Marlon King though as you say this does smack of double standards.
I too have changed my opinion of this over the past few weeks. This is a far more complicated case than many people seem to believe, and it's hard to believe in one thing while standing for another. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that it was a poor move for Ched Evans to assume that he can just go back to his old life. That ended when he was convicted for rape. Don't get me wrong, legally he has every right to work again, but he continues to maintain his innocence. If he truly believes he is innocent then he should have lodged an appeal and should not have rejoined football until his appeal is over.
Yes the press have jumped on the band wagon. However, on this board we have said the same thing about Marlon King/Lee Hughes etc (I'm sure someone is clever enough to find those threads). As I've said previously on this thread, for me it's the feelings of the victim and her family that count. Given the hype that surrounds this particular case, it would be better for all if he resumed his career overseas?
It annoys me that others join in, for dare I say it, free publicity. For example with Jessica Ennis, where were her principles when the relevant legal board decided that D Chambers should be allowed to compete again. Did she offer to withdraw from her gravy train.... no? This is currently a matter between an individual and any prospective employer and everyone else should not get involved. The only thing however which will move things on is the decision of the Review Board. Does anyone have any ideas of the timescales there ?
