I think its pretty clear how he wants us to play, whilst we are a little better than last year it is still essentially the same just with better players. But as I said, who really wants to buy into what he's trying to acheive.
How would you say he wants us to play then? The closest likening I have is that he'd like us to be Bayern Munich - pacey on the counter attack, with inverted wingers cutting in and shooting or inter-playing with the strikers, while we keep shape but knock it around and keep possession and build when a counter attack is not possible. I think Bayern play fantastic football and are great to watch, so as I say if that's the case I would definitely buy into that. Wouldn't you? My issue is that we do not show the above elements enough for me to be satisfied that that is the vision, so I really don't get what you mean.
I'm not that into wingers, wing play, running in open space. I'm not a fan of German football, like in this country the best players are foreign. Worst thing they ever did was try and be English in how they play. Everybody thinks they've re-invented the wheel. Hughton uses inverted wingers for defensive purposes and to whack in early crosses that don't require the central midfield advancing and getting close to the forwards. Its nothing like Bayern Munich.
It often looks to me as if we have three different rows of players, a bit like in table football. There seems to be a problem with the link from defence to midfield, and another problem with the link from midfield to attack. So there is that hole which Premiership forwards keep punishing (as Barry did on Saturday) and up front there is never more than one player there when the cross comes in. The midfield always seems to be late arriving.
Firstly I really like the german league, it has to be acknowledged that they are currently very successful few could see past Bayern Munich winning the champions league again this season, the Bundesliga suffers from the same issue that the spanish does that the opposition at the low end of the table are extremely removed in class from the top. to say that there best players aren't germans is pretty condescending really. Players like Neuer, Hummels, Reus, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Muller are among the best in the work in their positions and i could name more like the Benders who are excellent, then theres Gotze who could be fantastic in a few years. Also the Germans could well give Spain real challenge to win the World cup this year. I get that you want us to play like spanish clubs because thats what you like, but it doesn't mean that other styles of play are wrong, I find watching Bayern and Dortmund for more entertaining than Barce and Real. You can just assert that our style of play is wrong because its not what you link because currently in European Football German football is now king not Spanish football. The King is Dead, Long live the king!
We actually hit proportionately few crosses, so your analysis doesn't work - we hit a lower percentage of crosses than Everton (just) on Saturday and a significantly lower percentage than the likes of West Ham. We also have a terrible conversion rate on successful crosses and our wingers tend to only hit them when we've run out of options. They are much more likely to try to beat their man than hit a cross, so I think you're making assumptions based on last season's play again here.
So unless we play with a "spanish style" you won't be happy? Well you may have a long long long wait as it is unlikely to ever happen.
My assumptions are based on this season and what I see Whats the basis of a succesful cross, does it say where its come from, how many defenders, on the break, the angle, on the floor, in the air, position in the area. A cross from the byline is a very diffrent thing to a long in-swinger from shy of the area in terms of style of play and quality of chance.
No, we don't have to play a Spanish style for me to be happy. But when I see how we play and what the team is developing into, the players released and the types of players brought it is almost like Hughton is doing the absolute opposite to everything I want to see. Power, strength, wingers, rigid, crossing, give the ball away, sit back, defend, it is just not in the spirit of the game and I think it shames the club because no neutral would ever want to watch us. We have absolutely no positive attributes to describe us, even the hard working aspect is beginning to dwindle Attacking - no Passing - no Movement - no Patient - no Flair - no Excitement- no Pace - no Tackling - no Pressing - no We don't do any of these things, why on earth does anyone him at our club. Dreadful.
you sell yourself short far too often you know Carrabuh. This is exactly your problem and always has been; your eyes see what they want to see, despite all evidence to the contrary. Res ipsa loquitur. I believe that the stats represent crosses from a certain distance, but while it doesn't represent the positions of the crosses, both are irrelevant to my point; we attempt and convert very few crosses, proportionately. Why? Because Hughton does not instruct our players to do so. We have Hooper as our main striker, what do you expect! I honestly don't see how you can possibly come to your conclusion if you watch our matches. The reason we cross from poor positions is inherently tied to the above and all our problems - our wingers cross when they run out of options. This is because support is not good enough, movement is poor, options on the ground are limited and passing leaves a lot to be desired. Hence our wingers usually resort to crosses when they are down a blind alley. What's clear is they are instructed to cut in and shoot, which on current form it might be better to instruct them to put more crosses in.
So what style would make you happy? Or are you back in WUM mode? It's a shame because half your post above I agree with, but then your analysis and understanding of our team is so pointedly flawed in some very oddly specific instances. This is essentially what I've been saying - we now lack anything definable and are good at nothing. It is like Hughton, being the nice man he is, is trying to please everybody and pleasing nobody because it is all so incoherent. I almost want us to go back to a simple counter-attacking team so at least the players know what they're supposed to be doing, but I'm not convinced we even have the personnel for that. Pulis wouldn't have even considered taking us on!
You believe, or you know? Ok, so hughtons plan in to always cut in and shoot which is certainly a big aspect (on the left at least), but even I don't think Hughton is that one dimensional. Why on earth would he play with two up front, you just wouldn't need them. You also have the amount of times Hughton mentions crosses or opportunities to cross. And Snodgrass rarely cuts in and shoots to be honest he certainly has long cross on his mind. Redmond shoots all the time and Pilkington does it sometimes. But to say they only put the ball into the box when they have run out of space is ridiculous. Its deliberate, crosses (or shots) from crap positions of safety where positioning isn't gambling the safety of the defenders. Crossing remains very much a dominant part of our game, its just not successful.
Rob, my analysis is based on what happens during the games, you read like you're looking at databases and regurgitating somones statistical analysis web page to make your own view up. Our attacking intention for the strikers comes from the wings.
I'm fairly sure that there is some sort of specific limit to what constitutes a cross. I don't know what it is though. Over ten yards or something. But as I say, that isn't relevant to the point. The point is, whether you want to hear it or not, we do not hit many crosses proportionately, so it is not a dominant part of our game. By all means play straw man with my generalisation (I quite clearly didn't say/mean "only"). If I had tuppence for every time someone generalises on here and some wannabe Oxbridge (master) debater pleasures himself by picking holes in it and focusing on irrelevant minutiae I'd be a wealthy man. The point I was making is that you have said Hughton tells our inverted wingers to cross lots. I'm telling you that, if you watch our game, it is highly unlikely this can be the case because: (1) our wingers are just as likely to shoot as to hit a cross (2) our wingers are almost as likely to try to find a pass centrally (and admittedly usually fail) as cross (3) our wingers are just as likely to pass back to the fullback as cross (4) we play inverted wingers which means instructing the wingers to cross is relatively illogical and self-defeating (5) we are not strong in the air up front which means instructing the wingers to cross is illogical and self-defeating (6) we're rubbish at crossing and as you say, if you believe even Hughton isn't so one dimensional, surely you can stretch your generosity to believing he wouldn't tell our players to do more of what is not working? All of which indicates there is no coherent system of instructing our wingers to cross early. This is just what you want to believe for reasons best known to yourself. There are many more legitimate ways to criticise Hughton and his instructions. CCTV footage versus the money in the wallet if you will. Last season, I would agree, but you do not appear capable of separating the two. Just because the stats don't match what you want them to say, doesn't mean they're wrong. Chances are the opposite. I register plenty-nuff opinions with no statistical basis on here, so you'll forgive me if I view this particular WUM as you stamping your foot at realising you've been found out!
Everything goes through the wings, though, and I THINK this is Carrabuh's point. Yes, there have been the occasional signs of players trying to slip a pass through the centre (e.g. Fer's assist to Hooper) but generally we rely far too much on wing play which makes us very easy to defend against in my opinion. And Hughton's record so far suggests that this is very unlikely to change whatever happens in the transfer window.
Well I'd completely agree with that, but Carrabuh specifically says and has repeatedly said that Hughton instructs our wingers to hit long crosses from deep, which appears simply untrue (statistically as well as if you watch a full Norwich match), unless the wingers are ignoring Hughton (admittedly a possibility). Being true also doesn't contradict your point, which is why I can't understand why Carrabuh persists with this!
It's such a shame that Howson got injured when he did because he and Fer were just starting to develop an understanding that was enabling us to create through the middle
"Cross - a pass from a wide position into a specific area in front of the goal ......... Crosses are usually treated separately [from passes] and Crossing success is the percentage of successful crosses out of the total attempted." OPTA Glossary/Definitions of recorded events.
Tettey's injury derailed the improvement long before Howson's. Added to which Pilkington being out has deprived us of our most effective flank player (by which I mean he is the best at linking with the central attackers rather than just trying to feed them from the flank). As I see it, CH is working towards achieving a better balance between flanks and centre, but has been constantly frustrated by injuries, loss of form, and inexperience (Redmond).
Rob, describe how the ball gets to the strikers. Is it from the centre - no Is it from the byline - no Is it from long central balls - no Is it from short balls into the area - no Is it from long wide inswinging balls - Yes You say yourself we should pass from the centre, that we are rigid, there is little movement, thats the point with these balls, nobody gets pulled out of position if they are countered. I would suggest you look at the situations and how the ball gets (or attempts to) get to the strikers predominantly, its exactly how I say.
