Hooper messes up trying to do the right things. Sammy messes up doing the wrong things.
Celtic v Udinese: Official Thread
- Thread starter The Raging Oxter
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Hooper messes up trying to do the right things. Sammy messes up doing the wrong things.
RB - You on the 'hooch'? C'mon, I know that you're much better than this! I can't believe you seriously think that Georgio Samaras isn't "trying to do the right things"?
Lets separate these 2 things out.
He is trying
He is doing the wrong things.
He tries to do the wrong things all the time. That pass yesterday is the most recent and most obvious example of this.
I seen the Udinese penalty today for the first time, was never a penalty!
Nae luck though, get it up yeeeeeez
Nae luck though, get it up yeeeeeez
Hey RB -calm down - I'm not looking for a fight - I wasn't accusing you of anything - I just asked a serious question! (I've generally found that any of your posts I've read have been pretty good, your input generally excellent and long may that continue!)
It seems to me that whether its a case of your 'horses for courses' analogy and/or resting players, it all amounts to much the same thing as the ultimate aim will be to choose the players who will win the game, so there may be a combination of both going on....but at the end of the day these tactics are not working.
It's just this 'bandwagon' (my term I admit) of criticism of Georgios Samaras that I find a bit baffling - yes he is frustrating but he plays a huge part in seeking and having possession of the ball which I think has been missed by his detractors. I have deliberately never mentioned my beloved Barca until now but since you have done so I would point out that they will pass the ball to players who are being closely marked, with the sole purpose of probing, having it instantly returned and drawing the opposition out of position (and believe it or not we have our own frustrations with one or two players at times - who shall remain nameless here LOL!). I'm not saying that Georgios Samaras is doing this but there are aspects of his play which are not out of place with that philosophy of possessional play. Please believe me, I do not make that statement lightly as I regularly have the privilege of seeing football played in its most blissful form and I think (possibly arrogantly so) that I am not blind to a players faults nor his skills. I honestly believe that Georgios Samaras is given an unfair press by some on this forum. If what he is trying to do is not working, then, for me, that is down to the coaching staff.
It seems to me that whether its a case of your 'horses for courses' analogy and/or resting players, it all amounts to much the same thing as the ultimate aim will be to choose the players who will win the game, so there may be a combination of both going on....but at the end of the day these tactics are not working.
It's just this 'bandwagon' (my term I admit) of criticism of Georgios Samaras that I find a bit baffling - yes he is frustrating but he plays a huge part in seeking and having possession of the ball which I think has been missed by his detractors. I have deliberately never mentioned my beloved Barca until now but since you have done so I would point out that they will pass the ball to players who are being closely marked, with the sole purpose of probing, having it instantly returned and drawing the opposition out of position (and believe it or not we have our own frustrations with one or two players at times - who shall remain nameless here LOL!). I'm not saying that Georgios Samaras is doing this but there are aspects of his play which are not out of place with that philosophy of possessional play. Please believe me, I do not make that statement lightly as I regularly have the privilege of seeing football played in its most blissful form and I think (possibly arrogantly so) that I am not blind to a players faults nor his skills. I honestly believe that Georgios Samaras is given an unfair press by some on this forum. If what he is trying to do is not working, then, for me, that is down to the coaching staff.
Hey RB -calm down - I'm not looking for a fight - I wasn't accusing you of anything - I just asked a serious question! (I've generally found that any of your posts I've read have been pretty good, your input generally excellent and long may that continue!)
It seems to me that whether its a case of your 'horses for courses' analogy and/or resting players, it all amounts to much the same thing as the ultimate aim will be to choose the players who will win the game, so there may be a combination of both going on....but at the end of the day these tactics are not working.
It's just this 'bandwagon' (my term I admit) of criticism of Georgios Samaras that I find a bit baffling - yes he is frustrating but he plays a huge part in seeking and having possession of the ball which I think has been missed by his detractors. I have deliberately never mentioned my beloved Barca until now but since you have done so I would point out that they will pass the ball to players who are being closely marked, with the sole purpose of probing, having it instantly returned and drawing the opposition out of position (and believe it or not we have our own frustrations with one or two players at times - who shall remain nameless here LOL!). I'm not saying that Georgios Samaras is doing this but there as aspects of his play which are not out of place with that philosophy of possessional play. Please believe me, I do not make that statement lightly as I've had the privilege of seeing football played in its most blissful form and I think (possibly arrogantly so) that I am not blind to a players faults nor his skills and I honestly believe that Georgios Samaras is given an unfair press by some on this forum. If what he is trying to do is not working, then, for me, that is down to the coaching staff.
I didn't mean to appear aggressive. It's entirely unintentional.
Of course, yes the aim is to always win a game. Big George contributed greatly to beating the Huns in january and has got his game against them ever since. Stokes, whose general contribution to the team has been greater, in terms of appearances, goals scored and goals created. when Stokes doesn't play against the Hun, it isn't so much rotation as a plan to utilise a particular player for a particular game in a particular role.
Since joining us, Stokes has started one game against the Huns and that was wide right.
i am also wary of mentioning Barca as it gives the monkeys a nice and handy thread "They are comparing themselves to Barca" without reading what is said. It is just that they are the only side who play passes that defy conventional wisdom.
I can fully understand Sammy getting his game for Greece. He never hides, always shows and pulls the entire team 20 yards up the field and brings others into play. For Celtic, he has linked one time I can recall with Hooper (in a season and a bit) and they are too far apart, He doesn't get close enough to goal and he doesn't utilise all the physical attributes he has. He certainly isn't mean enough.
As for the coaching, I bring myself back to "that pass". It was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have supported Sammy, or at least not gone overboard in my criticism until then. That is a fundamental problem in how he thinks about the game. It was not misplaced...... I can take misplaced. How can that way of thinking be coached out of a guy that has played for the richest club in the world, won titles, played in the Champions league and is a full international having starred in International competitions..... Knocking that out of a player with that CV suggests he'll never "get it".
RB - Fair enough, I fully respect your opinion and as I only see the vast majority of games from afar I am not really qualified to judge exactly what is happening over the full extent of the pitch. Celtic FC are very dear to my heart, for family reasons, not only from a former player's perspective but which go back a very long time, even to the early days of the club's formation and which I will not go into here but believe me I would not concern myself with anything some of these Rangers supporters have to say in relation to this great club.
I can't help thinking, however, that Georgios Samaras has not been given a fair run with our supporters - bringing him on from the bench does little to help him gel with the team as that takes time and a run of full games. I fundamentally disagree with a lot of the criticism levelled at him, so, obviously, I am seeing his performances from a different perspective! However, I fully agree that if the Gary Hooper/Anthony Stokes partnership is producing goals then they should be first choice every time...but I have to say that I have seen them in games where they appeared 'toothless' and Anthony Stokes in particular ran out of ideas very quickly. However, I don't believe that the answer lies purely in the partnership of just the two strikers - attacking mid-fielders such as young James Forrest and Joe Ledley look, to me, like an overall combination which could produce a real goal threat.
I would suggest that on the first occasion that the partnership of Anthony Stokes and Gary Hooper isn't seen to be working then Mohamed Bangura should be given his chance and hopefully (my all-time favourite footballer) Henrik Larsson's judgement will be proved right! He looks a promising prospect from what I have seen but needs a run of games to 'bed in'. As for Georgios Samaras... how's this for an idea if his detractors want to help the club -instead of criticizing him, why not give him our full, uncompromising encouragement and support while he plays in our jersey and if this doesn't bring his performances up to scratch, 'talk up' how great he is, then maybe we'll get a great offer for him in the summer lol!