Is there any gossip on what is going on with Cedric these days? I havent seen any discussion about being injured but he's been dropped it seems. I've been reasonably impressed with Martina esp against Liverpool but thats mainly through having very low expectations. Cedric was showing signs of being an exciting right back.
Cedric
- Thread starter SaintinNZ
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
He is a good RB, but he a good RB for the occasion. Martina is a little more defensive, in my opinion, yet not incapable of going forward. Actually, it was against Liverpool that he made a little error that wasn't covered and it was exploited by Coutinho for 0-1. I'm not going to lambast him for that. He was given a hospital return pass that made him lose possession out of position. That sort of thing could have happened to Cedric or any other player. Why Martina is being favoured is because Saints have become a little less cavalier at going forward in the second half off the season, in my opinion. But Cedric has plenty of time and he's exciting, brave and full of running. I don't miss Clyne one little bit, and that's praise enough for both. Martina appears to have taken over the mantle of scoring spectacular goals.
Sorry TSS, I have to disagree with just about all of that. Neither Cedric or Martina come close to Clyne as Full Backs. Both lack positional awareness, both get lost when they go forward then have to chase back - see Liverpool's first goal at St Marys for example; Cuco Martina was marooned on the half way line when Coutinho was in space on the right of our box.
I'm not saying that they are as good as Clyne. Just that they are good enough that I don't miss him. Especially as he has done the usual post Saints player thing and gone backwards.
Mmm. He's been one of Liverpool's best players this season and has established himself in the England squad.
It's been a decent move for him, and we got a good fee.
He's been naff recently though. He only has competition from Walker to start for England so it's hardly that much of an achievement to have established himself as one of the two possibilities. Except when Roy prefers Phil Jones to them both.
Decent move for him, decent fee, I'd expect us to buy an improvement on Cedric/Martina in the summer anyway, so I'm not bothered.
I think we've been missing Clyne as much as we've been missing Morgan frankly. In fact that RB position has been our biggest problem all season.
I think Clyne wasn't that good either. Yet he is better then Cedric/Martina.
I think some people overrate Martina because he was expected to be so poor. I personally think people are using (maybe subconsiously?) different barometers to rate Cedric than they are Martina. I've seen plenty of games where Martina has been described as 'solid'. Though his performance has been similar to one of Cedrics where he was shocking/all over place etc.
Yep. Solid as a rock. And about as mobile at times.
To be fair, he was only "marooned" because of a shocking pass. Otherwise it would have gone down as a great run!
Everyone was bad against Liverpool. This includes Martina.
I think our defense overall right now is rather blah and average-ish, tbh. I do not trust our ability to play 4 at the back against the top half sides, and I don't know if we can contain the best sides even with 5.
I don't know if RB is our biggest problem. I think we are lacking a bit all over. VVD makes a few too many mistakes for my liking, but even as is he does enough great thing to make up for it. And I think he is getting better and will continue to do so. He's the one guy I feel confident about going forward. Fonte at least typically avoids the dumb mistake, and he organizes everyone so he's okay, but no longer exceptional. Problem is, he's not getting any younger. Everyone else is a question mark. Both left and right fullback, and at DM. Clasie and Romeu have both had their moments of brilliance but are too inconsistent.
At the same time, the seeds for a good defense are there. Clasie and Romeu could improve as they get used to PL. Bertrand I think is still not 100%, and can recover his old form. Targett and Cedric are still young. Even Martina at 26 still isn't at his peak and could improve with more games under his belt. It's up to Koeman to decide who has the goods to eventually make it, and who doesn't.
I think the odds are that a couple guys do step up and a couple guys do not. So we are going to need to strengthen in the summer to cover for the players that bust. I'm just not quite sure exactly where that will be just yet. I think we'll be okay at DM, but we could end up needing all three of a CB, LB, and RB. Hopefully not, but it's possible.
I think our defense overall right now is rather blah and average-ish, tbh. I do not trust our ability to play 4 at the back against the top half sides, and I don't know if we can contain the best sides even with 5.
I don't know if RB is our biggest problem. I think we are lacking a bit all over. VVD makes a few too many mistakes for my liking, but even as is he does enough great thing to make up for it. And I think he is getting better and will continue to do so. He's the one guy I feel confident about going forward. Fonte at least typically avoids the dumb mistake, and he organizes everyone so he's okay, but no longer exceptional. Problem is, he's not getting any younger. Everyone else is a question mark. Both left and right fullback, and at DM. Clasie and Romeu have both had their moments of brilliance but are too inconsistent.
At the same time, the seeds for a good defense are there. Clasie and Romeu could improve as they get used to PL. Bertrand I think is still not 100%, and can recover his old form. Targett and Cedric are still young. Even Martina at 26 still isn't at his peak and could improve with more games under his belt. It's up to Koeman to decide who has the goods to eventually make it, and who doesn't.
I think the odds are that a couple guys do step up and a couple guys do not. So we are going to need to strengthen in the summer to cover for the players that bust. I'm just not quite sure exactly where that will be just yet. I think we'll be okay at DM, but we could end up needing all three of a CB, LB, and RB. Hopefully not, but it's possible.
I said my piece about Martina following the Sunderland and Stoke games, so not going there again.
I didn't criticise him for the Couthino goal because, as has already been said, he received a dreadful pass and because we had plenty back who could have made a better fist at closing down the shot. It's not as if Couthino hasn't done it to us before, so no excuses for giving him a freeby.
With Liverpool giving Flanagan a new contract, playing him at right back AND making him captain at SMS, it makes me wonder if Clyne may not be as highly thought of, by Klopp, as he was by Rodgers.
I didn't criticise him for the Couthino goal because, as has already been said, he received a dreadful pass and because we had plenty back who could have made a better fist at closing down the shot. It's not as if Couthino hasn't done it to us before, so no excuses for giving him a freeby.
With Liverpool giving Flanagan a new contract, playing him at right back AND making him captain at SMS, it makes me wonder if Clyne may not be as highly thought of, by Klopp, as he was by Rodgers.
We played Clyne at left back a few times and even Hodgson chucked him out there against the Netherlands to cover for Bertrands injury.
Think it's a good sign when a manager plays you out of position.
Cedric is a much better player. Martina is robotic, sluggish and can't track back if he goes over the half way line - both the Liverpool goals last week came from his side. Cedric should be starting.
Martina made a mistake for the goal when Coutinho scored. Not particularly by being out of position - he was pushing forwards, I suspect as per plan A. No, it was more that when he went to the ground on the half way line he played it for sympathy. If instead of lying there and ever so slowly getting up he'd jumped up and run back with a true defender's instinct, he'd have been in just the right position to get in Coutinho's way when he cut back in before shooting.
Vin
Vin
I don't disagree with this. Indeed, I would go further. The players don't always seem confident to play it to Martina when he goes forward (although yes, I accept with no Morgan in the team now to play those crossfield passes, it's not quite as easy for us in general to quickly pick out our fullbacks when they go forward). This just makes the issue of him going forward even bigger. It would be easier to accept him being caught out every now and then, if he was compensating by being a real attacking threat (although I would still have my limits. At the end of the day, defending is still a defender's no.1 job in my book). But he quite often seems to just go forward for the sake of it. Going all that way forward to just a return a pass to Tadic or Mane, for example. Hardly worth it, for the risk involved.