Off Topic Catalonia

I hear it's like venice.

Locals get pushed aside. Air b&B push them out. You cant walk down your street without getting poked in the eye by a selfie stick.

Everything is too expensive. Etc etc.

I believe there's barely 20k vencians left. The city is unliveable.

 

Oh and we can't forget you add in 35% youth unemployment and resentment is inevitable

 

I went to Venice over 30 years ago and it was heaving then - but the city is a curiosity, and it's bound to happen. Barcelona is like most other major cities - some interesting places with magnificent architecture, but most of it is residential. It's largely built on a block pattern of 4 or five storey tenements and the only tourists to go there are those renting accommodation.
I didn't find walking their streets any worse than London - much better in fact.
Selfie sticks are an abomination anyway. I've never seen the point in taking pictures of beautiful or interesting places and ruining them with yer mug. Just a bit of oneupmanship to post on FB.

 

Yeah but if you are now 25 say .. Never had job... can't get one...... and these rich tourists (to you) swan about paying absentee landlords twice or more the monthly rent for apartments and then treat you like dirt.

I'd prob stick up signs too.

Air b&B has got away with murder as has uber.

 

Last time I was in Spain (Valencia) there was a huge protest camp set up in the central square

It was mostly young, unemployed people, students, those in bad work situations

Seems like this is a big ongoing issue there, employability, lack of opportunity, weak economy, and feeding into the Catalonia events for sure

 

you don't know enough about the current situation but call me naïve and simplistic..........my view on freedom consists of not giving a fk what you think, and making a judgement based on my own free thinking from the evidence on offer.......1984 thought police can fook off saintklopp dude ....its my opinion so deal with it or ignore

 

Thanks for that.

 

So tell us from your knowledge what "freedoms" of the Catalan people have been suppressed? Other than their treatment by the national police but you weren't talking about that. You were talking about their supposed right to self determination.

For example. When was Catalonia a sovereign independent nation?

Are you an anarchist? If not, who decides when a law is curtailing a person's freedom.

Thought police? Hysteria much? Saint disagreed with your post. He didn't try and have it or you removed from the board.

So other than making a generalised statement that seems to suggest a person can do whatever they want regardless of others in society what is your point?

 

I don't think Independence is a good idea for Catalonia. However, I think any people have the right to determine how they are governed, whether that is Catalonia, Scotland, or Shropshire.

 

It's the sense of entitlement that gets me.

They will want full eu access and grants etc and all that just like Scotland and all the nice stiff but just want their own for their own and are leaving a lot of poorer Spain up **** creek

 

Fixed

 

I thought I was having a grown-up debate about the subjective nature of "freedom", and the abuses carried out in its name, I wasn't interested in an arse-kicking contest.
Oh well, at least most on here can be reasonable when it's called for.

 

im an anarchist, watching the sheep sleepwalk into pens of corporate laws/acts whatever you wanna call them

 

I heard somewhere Catalans pay a disproportionate amount of tax and this is one of the issues involved.

 

They contribute to the funding of other Spanish regions AND of course the massive Spanish national debt.

Its really convienent to see them say bye bye Spain we will stsy in eu, keep all the taxes and you can have that debt... and anyone who has ever been to Barca and seen the roads tgere knows they've taken huge sums from the eu in development.

It's classic cake and eat it stuff

 

They do.... But it's not THAT much more. It was a few % off... They would probably get less for their tax money if they left (economies of scale and all that) there would be fewer people having to pay for services and some of the costs are about the same if you're a population of 40million or 7 million.

 

I presume they benefit on a health service level for costs being art of Spain. I think it's about 15bil or something a year flowing out of Catalonia to other areas of Spain.

I mean....a short list of things that could be said to them.

1. Right... coast guards and navy.. buy your own.

2. Air force/ helicopters

3. Health service. Negotiate your own drug prices and costs etc.

4. Regulatory bodies. Set up your own.

I suppose this list could go on end non and on as it actually should for Scotland.

The actual idea of independence for a region actually seem ridiculous.

The idea of UK having to do so many extra things that eu does collectively and then expecting a net income boost to plogh into nhs is utterly ludicrous tbh.

 

Barcelona played in an empty stadium on the weekend and now Atletico say they can't sell tickets to them for the game in Madrid due to a logistical problem.

 

I think a lot of this as well as being economic is down to cultural differences between Catalans and the rest of Spain, bullfighting for example which Catalunya banned in 2010. The Spanish High Court annulled this ban last year. This raised issues around autonomy and governance so there's already an underlying tension between the region and the rest of Spain

 

The Catalan people see themselves as a distinct people with their own language and culture.

That's enough to say they could be a different country.

I think, just like Scotland leaving UK or UK leaving the EU it's a bad idea, but it's not as totally stretched and ridiculous, as say, City of London leaving the UK.

They're screwing themselves financially if they leave, but, understandable why they're pissed at Spain... Especially now.