I recall saying a class of '92 collective being given a go when LVG was stinking the place out. Everyone laughed but I was serious, how could they be worse? All bar Beckham has some coaching experience and they all know how to play how they should and would coach accordingly. Seems fanciful but I'd have gone with it myself; Giggs as manager with Butt, Scholes, Neville and Beckham working there in various roles.
I thought about that too. We've had so many players, those you mention and others, who have gone into coaching and management it's astounding there was no succession plan in place long ago to continue the legacy that Ferguson built. It was suggested by fans and even players but never happened: - "It would make sense to talk to Sir Alex and say 'we don't want you to retire but let's do a plan here and bring your successor in'. The successor could work with him for a year or even five years. That would bring continuity. I would think Mark Hughes or Roy Keane would be right." ~Peter Schmeichel, 2008 Could it be that Ferguson's desire to retain absolute control proved a roadblock at the end, in that he couldn't bring himself to share power with a successor? The holy trinity and three most influential players during my time following United were Giggs, Keane and Cantona. Unlike the first two, Cantona does not have his coaching badges and has never seemed interested in going that route. Giggs has been described as wise, respected and tactically astute, but quiet in his character. Keane is the motivator, the bar raiser, the standout natural leader. Keane as the manager, driving force and figurehead with Giggs as his tactical assistant and go between to the players would be the full package and management dream team to take on the Guardiola's, Conte's and Zidane's for me. please log in to view this image please log in to view this image
Like I said above, the lack of any real outstanding successes. Getting a big club like Sunderland promoted from the Championship isn't a massive success imo. Conte got both Siena and Bari promoted, Simeone won the championship with River Plate and successfully fought relegation with Catania, rather than leaving in the middle of the scrap like Keane. Both of them had failures, but also genuine successes to fall back on, which I can't see for Keane. Don't really see Klopp and Poch as relevant as neither of them took over a big club. Mainz had only been a professional club for around a decade when they appointed Klopp, and when Espanyol appointed Poch they were on their third manager of the season so it was desperation more than anything else. Not sure we are at that stage yet, but if we end up relegated or third from bottom then I would of course reconsider! Ok, Benitez was regarded as a good coach at the time, true. But Houllier was hardly known outside France, and Rodgers had very limited experience. It's not like they were subject to the same level of demand as Mourinho or Pellegrini when they turned Liverpool down. You may be right about Molby, Carragher or Gerrard. But then again they'd probably have done even better bringing in Arsene Wenger in 1994 instead of Roy Evans. Ultimately there's a very low correlation between the quality of a player, including any 'footballing brain' and leadership qualities they may have, and the quality of a manager. And I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that previous affiliations to a club has any impact on the ability to manage that club. Just look at SAF, Mourinho, Wenger and Bobby Robson then compare their playing and managerial careers against those of Ince, Souness, Bobby Charlton, Lothar Matthaus and Bryan Robson.
I said it before that Pep has never been tested in another league.. yes he require highly expensive squad .. but man .. I have to admit he use his men power very well.. impressive going forward and really composed defensively. Have to admit, I was wrong , he is an excellent manager
I'm not sure Sunderland have been a particularly big club since the 1930s. From the '60s until Keane's arrival they had been up and down the divisions, spending most of their time in the second tier and had again been relegated. Let's also not forget Sunderland had gone down with a record low points total, had only won 5 of their previous 47 competitive matches and sat at the foot of the Championship before Keane arrived. There are similarities to Bari, who also have a history of bouncing between the top flight and second tier, and Siena, who likewise were relegated the season before Conte arrived. Are Keane winning the Championship and 'Manager of the Year' award with Sunderland, and Conte winning promotion from Serie B with Bari and Siena, so far apart? Both had work to do to turn it around. Then throw in the not so good, like Keane failing to get Ipswich promoted, Conte getting relegated with Arezzo and leaving Atalanta bottom of Serie A. It leaves me scratching my head - if this record was good enough to get Conte the job at Juventus, then it should at least not prevent Keane being a candidate for the job at United. please log in to view this image There are examples on both sides, though I'm not sure some of the former players you mentioned did that badly. I'm not saying Roy is an ex-player or that he managed Sunderland/Ipswich so we should hire him, only that there are enough similar examples of resultant success (like Conte) to show that United shouldn't rule it out. The real talking points in Keane's favour are the character traits he shares with Ferguson.
Hmm, I supposed I can accept your argument there. Although interesting to see that Conte followed Ciro Ferrara at Juve, another former player with all the leadership, motivational skills and tactical awareness to be thought of as a great manager but flopped even worse than Souness at Liverpool. I do agree that some of Keane's character traits are positive, although as I said above I do feel his personality is too abrasive. SAF knew when to rein it in for the good of the team, Keane doesn't seem to have that filter. He lost the dressing rooms at Sunderland and Ipswich by the end, and was forced out of Utd due to his clashes with SAF and the players, doesn't bode well for his ability to keep the dressing room at Utd as manager. I just feel that any motivational and attacking spirit he instilled would ultimately be countered by his lack of more subtle man management skills.
Yeah, Ferrara didn't work out at Juventus. Milan also have a long association of hiring former players from Ancelotti to Inzaghi. I've only just found out that Gattuso is now their manager. When did that happen? That's exciting because he'd been having mixed success with small clubs last I looked - now he's Milan manager - shows anything can happen quickly in football. Gattuso will be an interesting one to follow since he has an even more fiery and abrasive character than Keane. If nothing else, it's clear that club legends abroad are given more coaching opportunities than their counterparts in England. Back to Keane, working under O'Neill at Ireland he does appear to have mellowed with age - he's approaching 50, rather than the young manager he was, fresh out of playing. In any case, I think "lost the dressing room" at any of his clubs is an exaggeration... The players were behind him at United and if we look at those he criticised in the MUTV interview, they all speak of Keane's influence with the highest regard. The week following the interview we beat Chelsea, Smudge won Man of the Match and actually credited Keane's words for inspiring the performance. Saha later said that Keane sacrificed himself but gave United the kick we needed at that time. The whole episode was down to Keane's defiance of Fergie rather than any issue with the players. There was a report that players celebrated when Keane left Sunderland, but which players? The only player it's known he had fallen out with at the end was Yorkie over his broken promise to retire from international duty. However, there were no names or quotes mentioned. Yet there is a large body of testimony from his former players and chairman extolling Keane's positive impact on the club, with four players actually following him to Ipswich. It seems more like the paper trying to make a headline. At Ipswich there were a few fallouts. The most high profile were probably Jonathan Walters over his desire to leave the club, Pablo Counago because being a lazy **** doesn't sit well with Keane and Clive Clarke after he was loaned out and went public with his misgivings over Keane. Perhaps this is closer to the truth: - “People have got entirely the wrong idea about the gaffer. They remember him as a player, when he was all about winning, and they automatically think he must be a bit of a madman in the dressing room. “I wish I could take some of our fans in there because they would be amazed at how he really is. Yes, we get the hairdryer from time to time but only when we really deserve it. He tells it like it is but certainly doesn’t rant and rave just for the sake of it. “He is actually quite calm most of the time and he is brilliant at taking the pressure off the players. “Far too much has been made of him falling out with certain players and moving them on. That happens at every club, just as players don’t always get on with other players all the time.” ~David Norris (Ipswich captain), 5 weeks before Keane's departure I think the media created caricature of Keane which they use to sell headlines gives fans the jitters, when in reality he'd never have survived 12 years in the Old Trafford dressing room, captained the side for over half that time and come out with glowing praise if it were all that bad. On the Keane thread there is a section titled "man-management" which shows he certainly has a supportive and compassionate side to his character that's not so often seen in public. I guess the concern you raise is often heard but hopefully this all goes to explain why I can't share it.
