I disagree with your assessment of the game. The manager picks the team and he sets the team out to play. I have watched Napoli on a few occasions this season both in Serie A and the CL and one thing that concerned me before the game was the blistering pace at which they can break at. I felt a natural holding midfielder, someone like Essien or Romeu (if not both) was not only key, but crucial in determining the flow of the game. It was as clear as day that if we could stop the service to Lavezzi, Cavani and to a lesser extent Hamsik then Napoli's attacking threat would be minimal if not zero. Napoli's defence was slow, frail and vulnerable, they knew that hence why Inler is deployed in the holding role to protect the back 4, Inler is more important than any of their front 3 because he allows the players in front to play. We were gifted a goal by a poor clearance and apart from set pieces we never created many clear cut chances. Ivanovic and Cole bombing forward at times left us exposed to their counter with a man over. Let's be honest Napoli carved us open like a hot knife through butter and IMO that isn't down to lack of quality it's down to tactics. I don't believe that the same team that played City, Spurs and United off the park at different stages this season isn't good enough to hold their own against Napoli, the difference was in those games we got the tactics right. Romeu in the holding role neutralised Silva and prevented Yaya Toure from making those runs in midfield. Mikel/Romeu in the midfield also meant Parker and Modric weren't able to dominate. Against the better opposition you have to play holding midfielders, even Barca do this, these days not playing a holding player is almost unheard of but to do it in Europe is suicidal. I genuinely am surprised we only walked out with a 3-1 loss given we had no holding midfielders. Arsenal last week showed you can't win a tie in one leg, but you can certainly lose it. All we needed to do at 0-1 and even 2-1 was just keep it tight. At 2-1 I would still have believed qualification was possible but not at 3-1. AVB clearly has a problem with the senior players but as G.Neville rightly said (as much as I hate the guy) any new manager needs senior players on side. You need them to help the younger players at the club, thats why United have had so much success. When AVB said the players don't have to back him, that for me was the final nail in the coffin. You can lose some players, but when you lose all of them you are screwed. Replacing a manager is far less expensive than replacing a whole squad and that is why I am 100% sure AVB will not retain his job unless we finish top 4 and win a trophy. I think if we're humiliated at Stamford Bridge by Napoli that will be the straw that breaks the camels back. There is so much negativity surrounding the club at the moment and if we don't manage to beat Bolton convincingly and beat WBA he won't see out the next few weeks.
European Football at the top level is all about tactics hence why German and Italian sides have done so well down the years. Yesterday we applied no tactics and it was like a basketball game. Playing an open game of football against Napoli is like grabbing a bull by the horns. You have to play to opponents weaknesses as well as your own strengths.
Lots of good points but disagree with the holding midfielder point. He played Ramieres and Meireles yesterday who have both played that role before and it was 1 if not both of their jobs to help protect the back 4. Problem was, they both had really poor games. That was the worst performance I've probably seen both players put in for us and on reflection it's easy to say that Romeu for instance should have played. Ultimately the players let us and AVB down by making mistakes and not playing well enough. On top of that Napoli's main players performed well. If what's coming out is true regarding the players questioning the manager etc on the eve of our biggest game of the season, something is seriously wrong. I've stood up for the players before but they first and foremost have to do their job on the pitch and they are not. I don't think AVB can survive now but the players have a lot to answer for and a fair few will also be gone by this time next year.
You are becoming blinded by faith in AVB. He isn't as good as people think, most Chelsea fans were blinded by the fact his managerial upbringing was similar to Jose's. Meireles never has and never will be a holding midfielder player. Both he and Ramires are box to box midfielders. Their strengths never have been defending. Drogba has played Right wing in a 4-3-3 as has Torres, that doesn't mean because they have played there before that it's their best position. The tactics were wrong simple as. Everybody could see with the lineup it played into Napoli's hands. Every pundit etc could see this coming. [video]http://soccernet.espn.go.com/video?video=channels/339821/1607653&cc=5739[/video] I am normally the biggest critic of players and always have been but I don't blame them. Cole didn't start and wasn't prepared to come on, I'm not surprised he was so shaky. Malouda, Ramires, Sturridge, Drogba, Meireles, Mata never have been defensive players and that was where the problem lies. Our back 4 was put under extreme pressure and often find themselves outnumbered. I've said for nigh on months I would rather have Torres starting than Drogba. But once again Torres has been scapegoated by AVB for a string of poor performances
For me, it comes down to a total lack of faith in AVB by key players, not a lack of faith in the club itself. We all saw Cole clear that ball of the line, didn't look like a player that has given up on Chelsea... yet there are rumours that he called AVB out on his awful tactics. Then you see Malouda looking like a miserable twat and mumbling to himself when he came off the bench but at least he showed a bit of fight too. If our best senior players are doubting selections and tactics then it's clearly going to have an effect on the newer lot like Torres, Cahill, Lukaku and even I think it's starting to show in Mata now. I honestly don't understand how he thinks poor tactics and selections are a good way of showing who's boss, all it does is just reinforce their belief that he doesn't know what he's doing; the more he tries to impose his regime the worse it gets.
I think AVB holds grudges against players who critise him such as Lampard and Cole, and I imagine Anelka and Alex. He isn't tactically out of his depth, hes out of his depth dealing with a squad near his age.
I wouldn't say I'm blinded by faith in AVB. I'm very much on the fence as to whether we should stick with him. However my memory isn't that short and we were playing pretty poorly under Ancelotti for large periods last year and this is a man the players loved. Maybe it's time to stop blaming managers (same as with England). As for the holding midfielder, Essien is no more a holding midfielder than Rameires. Ramieres plays a similar role for Brazil he was deployed in last night. If AVB had picked Mikel, we'd have slaughtered him for that too. Romeu maybe but then again, maybe the game was too big for such an inexperienced player. Lampard should have played instead of Meireles but may have been dropped for questioning the manager which is the right decision. Fergie would have done the same.
Agreed. But I think it is just as much the players not respecting a manager of his age and time in the game. Had Jose taken on this side rather than the one in 05, he would have struggled too.
Tbh, Ramires has Lucas next to him to mop up for brazil but I think he just had a bad game last night .
Kind of my point Drogs, Ramieres and Meireles being picked wasn't the problem, it's how badly they played. Regardless of whether Meireles is a holding, box to box, attacking midfielder or whatever, he should be stoping that shot getting off for the equaliser. If that doesn't go in, who knows??
I don't think that's the case. If AVB got the can two weeks ago and Hiddink came in you can bet your arse that the team would be playing a **** of a lot better than they are currently, same for Mourhino it's just that Hiddink was free at that point... The difference is in the ability to manage men. I'm not arsed about the semantics here, just trying to prove a point that if the experienced players respect the manager it works better than if not...
Probably right. A new man coming in often lifts players but long term doesn't always work out. Point being that Jose grew with the likes of Lampard, Drogba, Terry etc. They were players who hadn't won anything. Now if 2005 Jose came into this team now assuming the main players had still won all those honours, it would be harder for them to respect an up and coming manager like a Jose (or AVB) than it would have in 2005 before they'd themselves achieved anything. Player power at our club has got out of control post Jose. What AVB achieved with Porto was pretty remarkable given what he took over. He has talent but perhaps we were the wrong club for him. As long as the drogbas, Lampards etc are still at the club, they probably need a manager with more experience. It can't be a coincidence that generally the younger hungrier players are performing better for AVB.
Sorry I didn't mean to snap at you. I just woke up in a bad mood after last night as we all did I'm sure. I apologise for that We had a bad spell under Ancelotti yes but to my mind we still carried a goal threat and I thought bad luck was partly the reason for that spell. I disagree with you about Essien, up until 2 years ago he was easily considered by many as the best midfielder in the world. He is so versatile he can play almost anywhere. Ramires' strength IMO is to make runs from deep in midfield and his movement causes defences serious problems. Essien's best attributes have always been to break up play and make strong bursting runs. Due to his injuries I no longer think he can do that and I think he is better deployed as a DM. No sensible Chelsea fan would have complained if Mikel had started or an alternative holding midfielder. I think everyone expected us to play at least one defensive midfielder against Napoli
Boy are we divided on this issue. No one is 100% behind AVB, but most are 85% against player power, me included. If we fire AVB, we compound and extend the problem, not solve it. We go backwards. ANY manager with half a brain, and I include Jose if he was to return , would send all bar Terry to the knackers yard next season anyway, where they belong. It is clear that they no longer do the business. AVB was hired to clean out the dross and rebuild over 3 years. When he does, he might turn out to be a good manager, or he might not. But when he tries to do so, wallop, the whole world comes down on him. One thing is for sure, NO ONE could make the team play better long term under the current circumstances, and for all those claiming he has bad tactics and they could do better, especially the likes of Dumbo Cole, if it's that easy, why isn't everyone doing it ??? Five or six mill a year, easy, I can do that. As if !!!!!!!! We don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes, so don't rush to judgement without all the facts. RA has made our bed, and now we all have to lie in it, no matter how uncomfortable.
I agree with you on this. We'll just have to accept mediocrity until his contract expires and we can rebuild, it's no biggie for me. Those that have been around long enough no 5th is by no means a bad season. As long as we aren't relegated I'll be content.
Firstly, don't think we'll be relegated, not this year at least!!! Secondly, when and if AVB does get to put his squad together, he can then be judged ,and harshly, as he is being judged now. It will be either put up ,or piss off time. Either way, whoever comes in after him, if that's the decision, will have an easier time than he's had. I think we'll be resuming this discussion about this time next year. Meantime I'm taking a closer interest in the reserves and youth teams. The 1st team is sending me to an early breakdown.
Sorry guys I think you misunderstood lol. I don't think we'll be relegated far from it, but I'm just saying only relegation would tip me over the edge. Midtable is fine whilst we rebuild I just don't think the likes of Mata will settle for that which is a shame, he deserves to be playing in a better team IMO
