Towards the end of Sept I left a still warm UK for a not very warm Australia with City in the automatic promotion spots, people on here wanting Adams to be given a knighthood and everybody in Newcastle demanding that Pardew was beheaded. 6 weeks later I return from a nicely warm Australia to a bloody cold UK fully aware that Pardew has turned things round and that following a bad run City are now 5 points off the automatic promotion spots and 2 points off the play offs. Disappointing but hardly a disaster. I come on Not606 hoping to find constructive comment and what do I find. Sack the Manager! Sack the Board! Sack the Chief Exec! Sack the groundsman! Sack the tea lady! Prepare for life in the Conference! FFS get a grip. It's the same players and the same Manager who had us top of the table when I left. Things in football go up and down very quickly and only 5 points off automatic promotion and 2 points off the play offs does not justify mass hysteria. Calm down and see where we are in another 6 weeks time and don't ,please, insult my intelligence by telling me where we will be as you don't know that any more than I do.
Can't believe it
- Thread starter 1950canary
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The problem is that you should be pissing this league shouldn't you?
100 points was the target wasn't it?
100 points was the target wasn't it?
Why should we be pissing this league? We might have, on paper, a few good players but that means nothing in this league - it's how you play as a team over the whole season that counts. Who set a target of 100 points? It certainly wasn't me. If you look back I said that anything in the top half would signal steadying of the ship and a top 8 finish would represent solid progress. I stand by that.
Yes. That's exactly the problem. Fans have looked at our players and their values and decided that we should. A part of me is still pretty convinced that we should, tbh.
I don't believe it was ever "the target". "The target" has always been promotion. It was a secondary wish. It would be the "icing on the cake". I think it rapidly became clear well before our bad run kicked in that it was going to be a real struggle to achieve 100 points. Technically, it's still achievable though, as long as we don't drop more than 7 points from hereon in...
I agree with you 1950 but there are plenty of head bangers on here that don't. As always the perception is greater than the reality. We get mocked for our style of football and I couldn't care less because it's effective and gets results. This league is a slog and a battle and if you aren't up for the battle all the pretty football will count for nothing. Adams needs to wise up and pretty quickly because in this league a couple of bad results can quickly lead to a downward spiral.
1950s when you left for your holiday, (hope you had a great time by the way) we were top and this place was a ghost town. Since the soap Dodgers went above us and we hit a slippery patch this place is crawling with Ipswich fans and all the negative posters slapping each other on the back about how they knew Adams would f** it up.
It seems to be a common trend on here Norwich fans love a moan and most only post when we lose.
It seems to be a common trend on here Norwich fans love a moan and most only post when we lose.
Oh yeah, and this place has turned into a playground infested by binners, with pretty much every thread getting overrun with rubbish 'banter'. Some of our own have even crawled out of the woodwork and have started threads dedicated to them. It's got boring, really boring - and oh so predictable regarding the meltdown after a bit of a dry spell on the points front that I'm certain we'll turn around sooner rather than later.
Hope you had a great holiday mate, good to see you back
Hope you had a great holiday mate, good to see you back
hey 1950's - glad to have you back
anybody who attended the forest game (or even watched it on a stream or listened to it on the radio) will know just how out of his depth adams is. to say it was blatantly obvious what changes were needed to halt the forest momentum is an understatement. during the game my mother in law knew what to do. the 8 year old sitting next to me knew what to do. i knew. you knew. the forest fans knew. adams and his staff didn’t. that’s not just a worry - that is unbelievable that a championship manager couldn’t tell what to do!!
when he was appointed the promise was that the football would be exciting on the back of a miserable period of football over the previous 18 months. have we seen any? i’m damned if i’ve seen any! we've scored a few goals but its natural we'll score more goals - our opponents aren't as good. on saturday we were far more negative in that second half than at any time under hughton, and against a side who was in pitiful form and at a real low in terms of confidence. yet the tactical genius that is stuart pearce *shudders* outwitted him. there is no plan. there is no philosophy. there is no forward-thinking approach. he hasn't got a clue what formation to play, he constantly picks players out of position. he seems more interested in passing the ball in our own half than anything else. he can’t even get the basics right. he's so naive - far, far more naive than i had ever accounted for upon his appointment.
he’s spent an awful lot of money (for this level) and we’ve seen one or two glimpses of individual magic from players who are capable of being top quality at this level, so you’d expect that. but the manager has offered nothing, nothing at all, bar one excellent comeback away to cardiff which if i’m being honest, appears to have been more down to a lucky break or two than the manager (as let’s face it, were it not for ruddy we’d have been 3-0 down early 2nd half). he’s holding us back with his naivity and lack of tactical awareness. of course the players should also take their share of the blame, as should the board, but i refuse to believe an experienced manager would be struggling with this set of players. they certainly wouldn’t be 10th, that’s for sure.
people may say i’m doing the complete opposite to what i suggested when hughton was in charge and that’s true, however, this is not the premier league. we were always going to struggle and he tried to make us hard to beat. it didn't work but hughton wasn't a bad manager. his philosophy whilst at the club wasn’t great and he didn’t suit our club, but adams is a different kettle of fish altogether. this is cut and dry. this is right up there with appointing gunn as gaffer. perhaps that’s unfair on adams; he has after all a background in coaching; but i ask you this: if we hadn’t appointed neil adams as manager, do you think any other league club - **** it, even any non league club - would they have made him their manager? i really don’t think they would!
there’s a good reason for that. he’s not got the respect of the players - this isn’t the youth team he’s in charge of - they are getting any easy ride. they need a disciplinarian. we saw it before and lambert and co sorted it. we’re right back to square one with one of the most foolish and disappointing appointments this club has ever made. we now have a scapegoat in mark robson, who as far as i can tell had huge respect from the players (maybe too much?) but it shouldn’t just be him shown his cards. get adams out, get holt out, let’s get a proper manager in charge and some experienced backroom staff and let’s start going about this very tricky but frankly rubbish league the right way.
i am so pissed off with the club at the moment. they are totally blowing the best chance we will have of going back up and standing a chance of using our relegation last season as a platform to come back stronger, utilising all the advantages financially and in terms of squad strength. utterly stupid appointment. and lets be honest, even when we were winning games, the list of problems he was either causing or failing to correct was long. as we were winning games it was generally assumed that we were doing well to be so high considering we'd not played well, but we still haven't played well! has he changed any of those problems into positives? he's not learning, he's still making the same, fundamental mistakes. he even looks and sounds as though he's on the verge of a breakdown. i feel sorry for him. he shouldn't be in this position.
anybody who attended the forest game (or even watched it on a stream or listened to it on the radio) will know just how out of his depth adams is. to say it was blatantly obvious what changes were needed to halt the forest momentum is an understatement. during the game my mother in law knew what to do. the 8 year old sitting next to me knew what to do. i knew. you knew. the forest fans knew. adams and his staff didn’t. that’s not just a worry - that is unbelievable that a championship manager couldn’t tell what to do!!
when he was appointed the promise was that the football would be exciting on the back of a miserable period of football over the previous 18 months. have we seen any? i’m damned if i’ve seen any! we've scored a few goals but its natural we'll score more goals - our opponents aren't as good. on saturday we were far more negative in that second half than at any time under hughton, and against a side who was in pitiful form and at a real low in terms of confidence. yet the tactical genius that is stuart pearce *shudders* outwitted him. there is no plan. there is no philosophy. there is no forward-thinking approach. he hasn't got a clue what formation to play, he constantly picks players out of position. he seems more interested in passing the ball in our own half than anything else. he can’t even get the basics right. he's so naive - far, far more naive than i had ever accounted for upon his appointment.
he’s spent an awful lot of money (for this level) and we’ve seen one or two glimpses of individual magic from players who are capable of being top quality at this level, so you’d expect that. but the manager has offered nothing, nothing at all, bar one excellent comeback away to cardiff which if i’m being honest, appears to have been more down to a lucky break or two than the manager (as let’s face it, were it not for ruddy we’d have been 3-0 down early 2nd half). he’s holding us back with his naivity and lack of tactical awareness. of course the players should also take their share of the blame, as should the board, but i refuse to believe an experienced manager would be struggling with this set of players. they certainly wouldn’t be 10th, that’s for sure.
people may say i’m doing the complete opposite to what i suggested when hughton was in charge and that’s true, however, this is not the premier league. we were always going to struggle and he tried to make us hard to beat. it didn't work but hughton wasn't a bad manager. his philosophy whilst at the club wasn’t great and he didn’t suit our club, but adams is a different kettle of fish altogether. this is cut and dry. this is right up there with appointing gunn as gaffer. perhaps that’s unfair on adams; he has after all a background in coaching; but i ask you this: if we hadn’t appointed neil adams as manager, do you think any other league club - **** it, even any non league club - would they have made him their manager? i really don’t think they would!
there’s a good reason for that. he’s not got the respect of the players - this isn’t the youth team he’s in charge of - they are getting any easy ride. they need a disciplinarian. we saw it before and lambert and co sorted it. we’re right back to square one with one of the most foolish and disappointing appointments this club has ever made. we now have a scapegoat in mark robson, who as far as i can tell had huge respect from the players (maybe too much?) but it shouldn’t just be him shown his cards. get adams out, get holt out, let’s get a proper manager in charge and some experienced backroom staff and let’s start going about this very tricky but frankly rubbish league the right way.
i am so pissed off with the club at the moment. they are totally blowing the best chance we will have of going back up and standing a chance of using our relegation last season as a platform to come back stronger, utilising all the advantages financially and in terms of squad strength. utterly stupid appointment. and lets be honest, even when we were winning games, the list of problems he was either causing or failing to correct was long. as we were winning games it was generally assumed that we were doing well to be so high considering we'd not played well, but we still haven't played well! has he changed any of those problems into positives? he's not learning, he's still making the same, fundamental mistakes. he even looks and sounds as though he's on the verge of a breakdown. i feel sorry for him. he shouldn't be in this position.
Also, I think my favourite quote of the week - which unfortunately I believe was said without any irony - was that "the appointment of Adams could well have set the club back 8-10 years"
Guess who came out with that?
Guess who came out with that?
it wasn't me, but is it actually that unlikely? hardly impossible. ipswich appointing roy keane probably set them back 5 years and perhaps its over the top but i would say appointing peter grant put the club back at least 5 years and i would compare adams ability with him.
Supers has spoken and we will have to put up with s**t football until 2023 now that is such a disappointment after being top just a few weeks ago.
This board is becoming embarrassing to say the least.
It is entirely unlikely Supers. Don't be ridiculous. Financially and institutionally we are streets ahead of where we were 10 years ago. The squad, despite the lack of much to show for it, remains stronger than Worthington's promotion side. So the only thing comparable is league position.
I am as concerned as the next Norwich fan to get promoted this season, but it is truly ridiculous to suggest it's all over, it's been a disaster, etc. Just take a look at Fulham. Sure, 9 points off but despite their absolutely appalling start I think they still have the players to get a play-off spot if all goes well.
Adams is clearly a novice, yes it wasn't the best choice, but it would be even worse to make snap decisions right now. As far as I can tell there is no clear indication as to the extent of Adams' managerial responsibilities, which means I find it difficult to know exactly how much to blame him. As I said on the other thread, as far as I can tell I would rank our problems on the pitch in this order:
(1) Primary problems - communication, organisation and poor concentration
(2) Secondary problems - changes to formation and substitutions
(3) Tertiary problems - injuries
Now the reason I split them up like that is because if you don't have (1), you are unlikely to have (2). Problems under (3) are totally out of our control, but directly impact (1). As far as I can tell, the responsibilities in (1) are with Robson. So frankly, it's the right decision to sack him, or at least someone with similar responsibilities.
The only one of that lot that Adams might be involved with is (2). I'm not even sure I know how much control he has over that. McNally made it clear months ago that a lot of control was being taken out of Adams' hands. But even if he is entirely responsible for (2), and we can all agree that the formations have been a problem recently as have the subs, we also have to bear in mind that (3) has a direct impact on formation and in respect of subs only six weeks ago we were praising [Adams] for his changes which had genuinely brought wins, doing pretty much the same thing.
After all, I think it's relatively well known that substitutions are more or less a roll of the dice anyway.
I'm not sure what to say about "he hasn't got the respect of the players". Over the summer the likes of Turner and Hoolahan signed new contracts. The players were fine when we were playing well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm nervous. Adams needs considerably more, and very experienced, support (a disciplinarian as you say would be a very good start). But disrupting the squad yet further is just the wrong way at this stage. At the very least we should wait a month and get a new manager in at Christmas if needs be.
Also, a number of us have said since the moment we got relegated that Adams would hit difficult points. Time and again we agreed that Adams would learn the ropes and show his true colours only in those struggles.
I think it's unfortunate that we hit the bad patch when we did. Injuries definitely did not help. We could have had fresh air between us and the play-off places if the bad patch had come just a few games later.
However, it is what it is. We've hit a rough patch and, surprise surprise, with a novice manager at the helm we've really struggled to dig our way out of it. But we have plenty of time, and while it's a concern we are a long way from panic stations. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs...
With all due respect Supers, given your (IMO) generally sensible and patient approach, if we pick up form and get promoted I would expect you to be (though only a little bit) embarrassed by this.
I think it's unfortunate that we hit the bad patch when we did. Injuries definitely did not help. We could have had fresh air between us and the play-off places if the bad patch had come just a few games later.
However, it is what it is. We've hit a rough patch and, surprise surprise, with a novice manager at the helm we've really struggled to dig our way out of it. But we have plenty of time, and while it's a concern we are a long way from panic stations. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs...
With all due respect Supers, given your (IMO) generally sensible and patient approach, if we pick up form and get promoted I would expect you to be (though only a little bit) embarrassed by this.
hang on a minute! I've not said it's going to happen!! I even said it wasn't me. I suggested it's not impossible. It's happened to other clubs who have made disastrous appointments and it's even happened to us before. as rob says, our financial position makes it appear less likely but having said that, it only takes two years of championship football for the coffers to run low again. it's absolutely vital, if we want the club to grow and a steady rate, that we are back in the top flight next season or absolute worst the following, else we are likely to remain a part of the championship furniture (or worse) for quite some time. That's why I still cannot get my head around this ridiculous risk the board have taken.
I'm positive that "this ridiculous decision" is entirely related to the structure that McNally wanted in place - a light-touch manager who was the face of the team and spoke to the media who brings consistency, has yellow and green blood and isn't a victim of the hire'em fire'em mentality. It's not easy to find someone of that description, let alone someone willing to take the role. I can't see a Lennon, a Zola or, god forbid, a Pulis being prepared to have such little control.
The guys on the front line - first team coach, chief scout, etc., all have much bigger responsibilities than under Lambert and Hughton. They therefore share a much larger responsibility of the blame when their aspect fails.
I'm surprised you hadn't picked up on this Supers, tbh.
The only real problem I have is I still don't know exactly what Adams' responsibilities are. Does he even pick the match-day squad?
The guys on the front line - first team coach, chief scout, etc., all have much bigger responsibilities than under Lambert and Hughton. They therefore share a much larger responsibility of the blame when their aspect fails.
I'm surprised you hadn't picked up on this Supers, tbh.
The only real problem I have is I still don't know exactly what Adams' responsibilities are. Does he even pick the match-day squad?
adams is first team coach and picks the team. he is head honcho and he is making basic errors at an alarming rate, even for a novice. we should all be very concerned. I couldn't care less if they bleed yellow and green - I want someone who knows what they are doing
Err, Supers I hate to break it to you but Robson was first-team coach, alongside Holt (who remains first-team coach). Adams is steadfastly referred to as "Manager".
I would imagine that picking the team (at least) would be a responsibility of the "Manager", but even that I can't be sure. I'm certainly not sure he is entirely control of substitutions and I'm 95% certain he does very little day-to-day coaching.
The really interesting question is what were the differences between Holt (the more novice of the first-team coaches) and Robson in their responsibilities. It's difficult to understand why Robson got the boot and Holt didn't - I guess because Robson is the more senior and therefore bears greater responsibility for our failings.
I would imagine that picking the team (at least) would be a responsibility of the "Manager", but even that I can't be sure. I'm certainly not sure he is entirely control of substitutions and I'm 95% certain he does very little day-to-day coaching.
The really interesting question is what were the differences between Holt (the more novice of the first-team coaches) and Robson in their responsibilities. It's difficult to understand why Robson got the boot and Holt didn't - I guess because Robson is the more senior and therefore bears greater responsibility for our failings.
