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British Champions Day 2015

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by woolcombe-folly007, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    It was no surprise at all to read in the Racing Post that Channel 4’s Champions’ Day coverage viewing figures were down by a third on previous years and that at one point there were more people watching Bargain Hunt on the BBC than the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes. Apparently it also lost out on viewing figures to some amateur boxing on one of the BBC channels. As the afternoon figures were only double the number attracted by the soporific Morning Line, it is time to wake up and accept that they are flogging a dead horse.

    Rod Street justified the early race times by arguing that racegoers coming from the South East would otherwise have to have competed for train space with Rugby fans heading to Twickenham. Really, Rod. You mean like they do not compete for train space every day of the week on the commute to work? I was on the train from Waterloo to Ascot on King George day and it was standing room only in both directions with racegoers crammed in like sardines. Perhaps you should have had a word with South West Trains and got them to put on longer trains between Waterloo and Reading on racedays; they run a couple of specials. Ironically, they had their best on-course attendance since 2012.

    When he talks about Channel 4 “terrific innovations” such as “new drone coverage”, which of the regular Channel 4 drones were new?
     
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  2. Steveo77

    Steveo77 Well-Known Member

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    I watched on Saturday and was to be honest impressed by the coverage.
    It is a sad fact thought that not many people are interested in horse racing. To try competing with a rugby world cup and the premier league is almost impossible for the sport. The fact that it attracted less viewers than amateur boxing and Bargain Hunt is worrying though. Basically the casual sports fan is just not aware of the sport anymore. I could understand that if like an increasing number of sports it is hidden away on a satellite channel. however it is not - it often nowadays is the only sport shown live on terrestrial TV on Saturdays. What a platform! Yet the sport has failed to capitalise on this opportunity. i dont know what the answer is other than I hope that the Cheltenham festival never decides to stage a raceday on a Saturday - it wouldnt stand a chance
     
    #62
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  3. woolcombe-folly007

    woolcombe-folly007 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Steveo- I was there on the day then Watcjed the coverage the day after! I was very impressed but as u say for the casual Saturday tv watcher they just did know about it! Yes they advertised it but could have done better (not sure how)

    And QM to say it is flogging a dead horse i do disagree on paper the QE2 was a great Spectle yes it didn't live up to the match race but on paper u couldn't ask for more the sprint you had a sprinter who for once had shown consistency which u hardly get for sprinters one winning each different race!! The time of year is irrelevant the prize money is up there and if a trainer wants to win it they will target the race - Jack Hobbs, Solow to name a couple I love the day and hope it continues some top quality horses top prize money !

    Be interesting to see the Racing Uk figures??
     
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  4. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    It's sad, but racing can never return to those halcyon days of yesterday. I've long been a fan of the sport, attending my first race meetings in the late 60s. Even in those days though, the number of punters making their way through the turnstiles at a mid week meeting was a bit on the thin side. To be honest, it was more akin to a victim of enorexia. I was a young bloke, a teenager, one of not too many, mingling among a sparse gathering of middle aged and senior gents. Women were thin on the ground. If what I've been led to believe is true, I was a blossoming flower amid the first generation of people who didn't give a flying **** about horse racing. I'd missed the massive crowds by a generation. But from what I'd been told by the older faces at the time, even when the masses showed up for the average Saturday meeting, most of the patrons were were not youngsters, they were as they are today, a generation once removed and more. The present generation of any age always have more choices on offer, be it football, cricket, partying or taking care of family business. Kids chew up heaps of valuable time. The problem now, is that those that began to frequent racing on a regular basis in mid life, in the past, are today missing. And who can blame them? We've never lived in such an age. Technology has given us options the likes of which the old farts of the past could not have imagined.

    Racing can never be the force it once was, at best it can only shore up it's defences and make small adjustments to lessen the impact from the influences of the outside world. It also has to find some way of covering it's arse. We've pitched our tents in a period where the media is part and parcel of our everyday lives. Anything of an ugly nature is blasted across the internet at the speed of light, allowing for all types to jump on all manner of bandwagons, be they good or bad, and in the case of the latter, create the sort of furore that can alienate prospective patrons. Dead horses don't help. Crapping betting houses don't help. Over the years I've had this thing about the perceived integrity of horse racing on a whole. I've asked non racing people, from time to time, whenever the subject of racing's decline is raised, what they think of the sport's integrity. The answers are usually most unflattering. The world loves negativity. Ever watched the news? The replies are all about whips, cruelty, crooks, drugs, non triers, tight fisted betting houses and powerful breeding interests who from on high, suck the life out of the industry. If we're into believing that there is a way back, we're into lives of fantasy. I don't think there is a way of climbing out of the mire, if anything, at best, racing can only continue to sink further from the view of the general public.
     
    #64
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  5. bayernkenny

    bayernkenny Well-Known Member

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    Just a small point to add to the comprehensive post directly above.

    Shortly after my father passed away in the early eighties my mother and I started to attend the Cheltenham Festival. As I am 'living' in a hotel at the moment my old racecards and other assorted documentation from our early visits are not to hand so my comments are from memory. After a few years in the Club Enclosure we moved via Tattersalls to the, then named, Foster's Enclosure. My mother in her wisdom named the least expensive enclosure 'The Cabbage Patch'. Little did we know the fun we would have during our visits to this part of Prestbury Park. We saw/heard a Beatles tribute band, a Pogues type singalong group and the unforgettable year the tent held a 'Karaoke' all afternoon. Imagine a singalong where every third 'drunk' fell onto the stage to belt out their version of 'Danny Boy' or 'Dirty Old Toun'.

    Our 'downmarket' moves reduced our entry prices from about £40 to £20 to £7. I have just had a look at the prices for the 2016 Festival where the spread is £65 to £35 to £22. Why has the entry fee for the least expensive enclosure increased by three hundred per cent? Have the facilities been improved from the mid nineties? Are 'The Ringo Starr All Star Band' appearing? Has Shane McGowan been given the kiss of life?

    Finally I return to my ongoing rant; why does a racecard for the 'Festival' cost the same price as the entrance fee for my forthcoming visit to Auteuil where I will see three grade one races featuring the best 'jumps' horses in France?

    To close, if Ringo's beat combo were appearing and Nils Lofgren was one of the band I would break my self imposed ban from the Festival!!!!!

    Grump from this 'old fart' now over!!!
     
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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
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  6. Steveo77

    Steveo77 Well-Known Member

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    I would say that I only have an interest in racing still because of the continued terrestrial TV coverage it gets.
    In fact I would say that horse racing is now the most shown and most accessible sport on terrestrial TV - which other sport has live coverage for over 2 hours every week in addition to sometimes midweek live coverage?

    Therefore although I appreciate the arguments put forward about why it is declining I do find it surprising because :
    1) the coverage it gets
    2) betting generally is on the rise and lets face it racing and betting are interlinked more than any other sport.
     
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  7. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Wooly, whilst we followers of horse racing might well have been looking forward to the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes, we would have watched it even if Gleneagles had been taken out (which we now know would have made no difference to the race).

    Given the choice of watching four people searching junk shops for antiques or one of the season’s most valuable horse race meetings, the casual viewer chose the former or neither. I will assume that there were lots of boxing fans watching the amateur boxing. Whichever way it is sliced, Champions Day did not attract casual viewers, although actual course attendance was good despite the poor timing resulting from the Rugby conflict, suggesting that the subset of Rugby and Racing fans is not very large.

    If your horse wants fast ground (e.g. Gleneagles) targeting Champions Day is not going to enter your mind as a trainer because there is virtually no chance of getting that in October.

    Racing UK viewing figures are totally irrelevant as they cannot attract any casual viewers because they are a subscription channel.
     
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  8. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    There is a State betting monopoly in France that subsidises entry fees to horse race meetings, although this does not seem to attract great numbers through the turnstiles. I paid just €20 to see eight Group 1 events at Longchamp on Arc Sunday but that would not get me in to the third tier facility at Cheltenham for a day to see fewer Grade 1 events with the stands packed. This could be explained very simply as supply and demand; market forces.
     
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  9. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Betting on horse racing is in decline, even in France with their PMU monopoly.

    An increasing percentage of betting turnover is on other sports (especially football) as that is what attracts young single punters with money to gamble. That is why the big bookmakers are investing fortunes in advertising their online/mobile presence to the new generation; and much of that advertising appears on Sky Sports and BT Sport during football coverage.
     
    #69
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  10. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Where there is betting there is corruption. And I would be surprised if there is not more corruption in football than there is in horse racing. So why doesn't football get a bad name?
     
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  11. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Football isn't the main culprit, in fact other sports in general aren't taking that much money away from the horse racing turnover. The biggest culprit are the gaming machines who are responsible for over 60% of bookmakers income these days.

    As far as viewing figures on the tele goes, the main reason figures have dropped is because all the racing is on Channel 4 and none is on the BBC. The BBC is a more popular station than Channel 4, so no matter what sport is on, the BBC will always get more viewing figures than Channel 4 will. Even if you put the football World Cup or the FA Cup final on Channel 4 viewing figures would go down. I'm certain of that.

    A lot of the viewers who where watching bargain hunt instead of the racing, probably didn't even realise the racing was on as they never flick on Channel 4 to see what's on. Where as if it was on the BBC they'd of seen it, and some would have probably watched it :biggrin:
     
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  12. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Sorry double post
     
    #72
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  13. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    Less and less people are even watching TV, I know the only time I use the tv is to watch racing or football that I already know is on so im not going to stumble on to anything by accident. Netflix, torrents, youtube etc have rendered TV unnecessary, they still have sports because streams rarely replicate the quality and consistency of TV. The sort of people who are just browsing terrestrial tv on a saturday afternoon are probably more likely to watch Bargain Hunt than racing! The next generations need to be targeted online.

    I know plenty of guys my age who like a bet, the vast majority of them do, but very few have any real interest in racing even if they put the odd racing bet on. Very, very few of them fell for the history of the sport like I did but I had a few older people around me who loved it, most probably dont. Its down to racing fans to sell the game on but in my experience the negativity attached to the sport and gambling means most parents probably dont want there kids getting into it, I know my mum didnt want my dad telling me about racing, and he didnt, I eventually found it myself and seems it was just in my blood. I think its just one of those things you either get it or you dont, it will never die but its never going to explode into the mainstream like football.
     
    #73
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  14. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Wise words Boris, and the online availability of racing coverage needs seriously looking at - neither ATR nor RUK stream online for free so it's either cricfree (ahem) or nowt. Totally frustrating how difficult it is to just WATCH horse racing (apart from the big meetings obv)
     
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  15. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    Long live Cricfree. Of course I wouldn't use their services. <laugh>
     
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  16. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    ATR is free and RUK is £23 so hardly like your gonna have to remortgage to watch it. All the racing for £23 is pretty reasonable if you ask me :biggrin:
     
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  17. woolcombe-folly007

    woolcombe-folly007 Well-Known Member

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    ATR Is actually an extra £1 A month that's how much I pay for it anyway <laugh>
     
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  18. Steveo77

    Steveo77 Well-Known Member

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    i dont bother with the subscription stuff, but if i want to watch a race outside of the terrestrial coverage then i will just have a small bet on my Coral online account and I get to see the race for free. Can be expensive if i lose every bet of course <laugh>
     
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  19. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    This is very easy to dispute. Most of the youngsters who have taken up betting never set foot in a betting shop. They bet online or on their mobile devices but have never really been introduced to horseracing as a sport. When watching the football down the local, I often see younger patrons checking their odds on their mobiles, encouraged by the bookies’ advertising and sponsorship.

    When I go into any of the local betting shops, the punters paying any attention to the horses or the greyhounds are generally old. The FOBT punters (from my unscientific observations) frequently seem to be young and mostly from ethnic minorities. The bookmakers are quite happy to take their money as the machines guarantee them a profit of up to 22 per cent on turnover as they legally only have to pay out 78 per cent to players. Just like I never bet on ‘virtual’ racing (betting on a video game), I would never bet against a computer that you have no long term prospect of beating.
     
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  20. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    I am sure that you meant Fewer and fewer people, however, this is not actually the case.

    We can all remember when the choice was just one of the four terrestrial channels. Each week the viewing figures would be dominated by the same staples of the schedule like the soaps and sitcoms drawing in audiences of fifteen million.

    Now that we have hundreds of channels, the audience has fragmented. Looking at the top thirty viewing figures for the week Oct 5-11, the Great British Bake Off Final pulled in 15m followed by Strictly Come Dancing with 10.3m. The biggest audience for a Rugby World Cup match was 3.45m for Australia v Wales, which at least beat Friday’s England Euro Qualifier football with 3.05m. That week’s Channel 4 Racing did not make the top thirty for Channel 4.

    I know several people who use the internet to watch football on various unofficial outlets that stream the same pictures that Sky and BT Sport get but from foreign TV channels, thus avoiding paying extortionate subscription rates.
     
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