Bring back Roy Keane
- Thread starter gav81
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Summary of Keano's comments on the ITV CL highlights show last night: -
-Still not convinced by Liverpool or Tottenham despite some impressive first leg results - says their modern day trophy records are an embarrassment and should be judged at the end of the season.
-Following United defeat to Newcastle, says top players like Pogba should be able to play in a midfield two or three and that he needs to do better.
-The United centre back position has been a problem for United for a few years and that we will also struggle with Ashley Young in the back four.
-Still not convinced by Liverpool or Tottenham despite some impressive first leg results - says their modern day trophy records are an embarrassment and should be judged at the end of the season.
-Following United defeat to Newcastle, says top players like Pogba should be able to play in a midfield two or three and that he needs to do better.
-The United centre back position has been a problem for United for a few years and that we will also struggle with Ashley Young in the back four.
There is nothing in there I could disagree with.
Last point first, we are still yearning for the Vidic/Rio replacements. And while Ashley Young is doing well in various positions he is not a specialist full back.
Pogba is a top player but his talents are imo focussed on attack. His defensive abilities are limited. To expect him to defend is like buying a Ferrari and expect it to do a good job on the farm. The key priority is to get Pogba and Sanchez to work together for the benefit of the team. To get Pogba to do a more defensive role to accommodate Sanchez will lead to disaster.
The RS are already saying they are favourites for the CL by virtue of their win at Porto.
Porto were so bad that they would not have done justice to a English division 1 side. Spurs did better but they were let off the hook by Juventus failing to press home their lead by missing clear cut chances. It could have been 4-0 before Spurs had a chance to come back. Their refusal to give up was commendable.Ironically it could be in the CL that United give their best performances. Sevilla will tell us more next week.
It's the time of week we've all been waiting for, Keano comments on the ITV CL highlights show!
First a defence of Pogba and switching some responsibility to Lukaku/Sanchez: -
"Pogba is a really good player. He’s under lots of pressure at the moment, lots of speculation about him, but you’d still have Pogba in your starting eleven,
“I look at Pogba off the field and he seems to have a big personality whether it be social media, the cars he drives, his haircut….he needs to bring all that on to the football pitch.
“But Man United’s problems are not just with Pogba. Lukaku has to do better, Sanchez has to do better, even though he is new to the club. They also need to reinvest in some defenders, so you can’t keep pointing the finger at Pogba, but of course the lad has to do better.
“Talk is cheap. Man United is one of the biggest clubs on the planet and they have to do better and certain players have to up their game.
“Lukaku, for example. If he wants to become one of the great strikers at Man United and you get chances like he did (against Sevilla) you have to score in these tight games."
Then a defence of the scoreline and some encouragement for the players: -
“In an ideal world, obviously, you are hoping to get a goal away from home. Performance wasn’t great, but 0-0 you take it and you expect United to beat Sevilla at home.
“I still look at United and they still look as if they are getting used to each other, all playing as individuals. They are still lacking something.
“There is a responsibility when you are playing for a big club like United to have a style over the years, but there was big damage done to United over the last few years going back to the change of manager when Alex Ferguson left and it’s almost as if they are taking baby steps.
“They won a couple of trophies last season, if they get through this (tie against Sevilla), they have a good FA Cup draw, they are taking small steps.
"They are short of two or three players so their short term targets at the moment are just getting through these ties without necessarily playing fantastically well.
“If you're a player in the dressing room tonight, or the manager or the coaching staff, you'll be going back on the plane saying 'Listen lads we didn't play great tonight but job done. We got a decent result and we expect to get through the second leg.”
I don't know what's up with Roy this season. Last year he was quite critical of performances and made it clear he is no fan of Mourinho. This year he hardly has a bad word to say.
Keano!
First a defence of Pogba and switching some responsibility to Lukaku/Sanchez: -
"Pogba is a really good player. He’s under lots of pressure at the moment, lots of speculation about him, but you’d still have Pogba in your starting eleven,
“I look at Pogba off the field and he seems to have a big personality whether it be social media, the cars he drives, his haircut….he needs to bring all that on to the football pitch.
“But Man United’s problems are not just with Pogba. Lukaku has to do better, Sanchez has to do better, even though he is new to the club. They also need to reinvest in some defenders, so you can’t keep pointing the finger at Pogba, but of course the lad has to do better.
“Talk is cheap. Man United is one of the biggest clubs on the planet and they have to do better and certain players have to up their game.
“Lukaku, for example. If he wants to become one of the great strikers at Man United and you get chances like he did (against Sevilla) you have to score in these tight games."
Then a defence of the scoreline and some encouragement for the players: -
“In an ideal world, obviously, you are hoping to get a goal away from home. Performance wasn’t great, but 0-0 you take it and you expect United to beat Sevilla at home.
“I still look at United and they still look as if they are getting used to each other, all playing as individuals. They are still lacking something.
“There is a responsibility when you are playing for a big club like United to have a style over the years, but there was big damage done to United over the last few years going back to the change of manager when Alex Ferguson left and it’s almost as if they are taking baby steps.
“They won a couple of trophies last season, if they get through this (tie against Sevilla), they have a good FA Cup draw, they are taking small steps.
"They are short of two or three players so their short term targets at the moment are just getting through these ties without necessarily playing fantastically well.
“If you're a player in the dressing room tonight, or the manager or the coaching staff, you'll be going back on the plane saying 'Listen lads we didn't play great tonight but job done. We got a decent result and we expect to get through the second leg.”
I don't know what's up with Roy this season. Last year he was quite critical of performances and made it clear he is no fan of Mourinho. This year he hardly has a bad word to say.
Keano!
Yes, if the media caricature of Keane were to be believed, but it's not. Heaven knows how he spent 12 years in the United dressing room, five years managing clubs and four years at Ireland without falling out with all the players.
The truth is Keane fell out with no one at United except Ferguson and Queiroz at the end. There were infractions within the limits of those times (e.g. with Schmeichel and Heinze) but what you'll find is every former United player speaks highly of Keane and his leadership. Alan Smith even credited Keane for his MUTV interview and Saha still supports what he did to this day.
Overall Keane was actually a protective influence over the players. His showdown with Viera in the Highbury tunnel for example, was in defence of Gary Neville. There are many other examples...
"He was hard on me but he was always fair. If he spoke to me 10 times, nine were compliments. If I was late, Roy would let me know. If my passing wasn't on in training then Roy would let me know.
"People remember the controversial stories and the times he went mental. But the rest of the time he made me feel on top of the world.
"What about the story where I've been out for two months and Roy says loudly, "I am glad this lad's back. We have missed him". That's not a great story. It's a better story to say, "Remember that time Roy nailed Fletch in the dressing room for looking at his phone".
"That did happen, yeah. But it was rare and that was just about standards. It was his way of getting a message to everybody. That is what it was like at United.
"I just watched Roy and learned, but above all of that I just liked him. I still like him."
~Darren Fletcher
"People remember the controversial stories and the times he went mental. But the rest of the time he made me feel on top of the world.
"What about the story where I've been out for two months and Roy says loudly, "I am glad this lad's back. We have missed him". That's not a great story. It's a better story to say, "Remember that time Roy nailed Fletch in the dressing room for looking at his phone".
"That did happen, yeah. But it was rare and that was just about standards. It was his way of getting a message to everybody. That is what it was like at United.
"I just watched Roy and learned, but above all of that I just liked him. I still like him."
~Darren Fletcher
Moving on to Sunderland, the only player Keane had fallen out with at the end was Dwight Yorke. That was after Keane sent him to the reserves and Yorke went back on a promise to retire from international football. But like at United, most of the players speak highly of Keane and four of them actually followed Keane to Ipswich. The media headlines at the end were typically exaggerated to make a story.
This is the truth of Keane's time at Sunderland, from the horses mouth...
"I have a lot of respect for our old boss Roy. He was a nice man. He had a positive impact on every player at the club, he had an aura about him - he's Roy Keane!
"Someone like that is always going to be missed. My game improved under him and it continues to – hopefully."
~Grant Leadbitter, Sunderland
"Someone like that is always going to be missed. My game improved under him and it continues to – hopefully."
~Grant Leadbitter, Sunderland
It was the same at Ipswich - a couple of fall outs with players Keane didn't trust, loaned out, etc. The biggest was probably with Pablo Counago who had a well known attitude and work ethic problem even under the previous manager. Obviously that was never going to sit well with Keane and nor would such a player enjoy his tenure. But overall it was positive...
"I said a while back that if I was chairman, I'd give him a go as a manager because I was impressed with him at Ipswich. I really enjoyed how he was with people."
~Jon Walters, Ipswich
~Jon Walters, Ipswich
Aston Villa...
“Personally speaking he was fantastic for me. He always made me feel good and he always put in some good finishing sessions. I can’t speak highly enough of him and for me he was fantastic.
“If you want to improve as a player and get better you need people to tell you the truth. And he was definitely one for that.
“I think he got on with the players. I think what people most respected about him is that he told it as it was, to be fair."
~Darren Bent, Aston Villa
“If you want to improve as a player and get better you need people to tell you the truth. And he was definitely one for that.
“I think he got on with the players. I think what people most respected about him is that he told it as it was, to be fair."
~Darren Bent, Aston Villa
Then Ireland where there have been no fall outs at all. The opposite even...
"No, do you know what, around the floor here with the lads he sits in and he's a great laugh, he's very sharp, quick with his banter you know? Funny, very funny."
~Shane Long, Ireland
~Shane Long, Ireland
As well as the media having a lot to answer for, Fergie did Keane no favours with the attack his 2014 book. But theirs is a personal power struggle; nothing to do with the players. In any case, Ferguson's depiction of events is not one everyone agreed with. Here is what John O'Shea said about Ferguson's comment that Keane was not good for him...
"Roy was always wanting the best and he’d always look out for me. He wanted the players to improve all the time. He's a winner and he wanted to be the best. It was an absolute pleasure to play alongside him and be in the dressing room with Roy.
"Obviously books through the years can be a slight exaggeration or whatever. The people that are involved in the books have to sell the books, they highlight certain things. Books can be misleading in some senses. In my eyes, he was always very good to me, in terms of wanting me to do better and wanting me to improve."
~John O'Shea
"Obviously books through the years can be a slight exaggeration or whatever. The people that are involved in the books have to sell the books, they highlight certain things. Books can be misleading in some senses. In my eyes, he was always very good to me, in terms of wanting me to do better and wanting me to improve."
~John O'Shea
Keane is the most successful captain in the club's history. As United supporters I think we should look for the real story before we believe the overblown media headlines.
Great captain. Think he’d be a **** manager in the modern game. He wouldn’t be able to manage all those egos. I believe he only had one successful managerial job.
Did you even read the post? Why do you think he couldn't manage the egos? He's captained and managed players very well.
How about this... for every player you can name that Keane has fallen out with, I'll name one that Jose has fallen out with, and add one more at the end.
The fear around Keane's man-management is baseless, media sensationalism.
I wouldn't be too sure. There's not a huge pool of managers out there suitable for United and I wouldn't be surprised if Keane was on the board's shortlist...
Roy Keane in running to replace Louis van Gaal as Manchester United boss, say Italian media
Roy Keane should be Manchester United boss after Louis Van Gaal
Roy Keane - the next United manager?
Fergie even had it right before he went a bit senile and appointed Moyes...
Ferguson backs Keane for hot-seat
If Mourinho fails and the board feel that United need a reboot...
And if Barcelona can appoint Guardiola, Juventus can appoint Conte, Atletico can appoint Simeone (all former great captains of the clubs), then United can appoint Keane.
Roy Keane in running to replace Louis van Gaal as Manchester United boss, say Italian media
Roy Keane should be Manchester United boss after Louis Van Gaal
Roy Keane - the next United manager?
Fergie even had it right before he went a bit senile and appointed Moyes...
Ferguson backs Keane for hot-seat
If Mourinho fails and the board feel that United need a reboot...
And if Barcelona can appoint Guardiola, Juventus can appoint Conte, Atletico can appoint Simeone (all former great captains of the clubs), then United can appoint Keane.
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Keane’s attempts at management have not been successful have they? I remember Brian Robson being touted as the next United manager, he fell by the wayside. Hughes and many others too.
Keane's tenures with Sunderland and Ireland to date have been very successful. Check the second post on this thread for detail of his management history.
I think he has a record to match any of Pep, Conte, Simeone, De Boer, Enrique, Poch or Klopp before they got their crack at a big club.
Summary: Keane's a ****
I do believe your stance is softening. Last time you called him a "dirty gypo twat".
I do believe your stance is softening. Last time you called him a "dirty gypo twat".
I'm in a good mood today
We'll see how Giggs does in the Wales job. Giggs although a magnificent player, never really struck me as a leader in the same way Keane was.
Though i suppose a calm and relaxed approach to management, can work at some clubs, so maybe Giggs will do well.
I could imagine Keane would just go straight in and start picking fights with anyone he thought wasn't pulling their weight
We'll see how Giggs does in the Wales job. Giggs although a magnificent player, never really struck me as a leader in the same way Keane was.
Though i suppose a calm and relaxed approach to management, can work at some clubs, so maybe Giggs will do well.
I could imagine Keane would just go straight in and start picking fights with anyone he thought wasn't pulling their weight
There's a video online of Giggs' pre-match briefing to the players before his last game in charge - have to say his calmness comes across a little uninspiring.
Keane is the opposite - inspirational speeches are his strength - with more of a rousing, "We'll ****in' do 'em, we are United!" feel behind the message.
"I have been in many dressing rooms and with very important players but I remember reaching half time in games and it was only him that spoke, the one that made the speech. Sir Alex Ferguson was to one side and he (Keane) spoke. I am still profoundly affected by him.”
~Gerard Pique
"He was the most influential presence in the dressing room in the time we worked together. Roy took a lot of the onus off me in making sure the dressing room was operating at a high level of motivation.”
~Alex Ferguson
"If you don't have a burning desire to play after talking to Roy Keane, you're probably best off giving up. It gave me an extra incentive to work hard and that's what I'll do.”
~Harry Arter, Rep of Ireland
I wouldn't worry about Keane picking fights with players for not pulling their weight - there's very few who would test him by not giving their all
The only time I can think that led to conflict was with Pablo Counago at Ipswich. He had a history of attitude and fitness problems with his previous manager who said, "there are times when he seems to think that running is not in his contract" and such a lackadaisical attitude didn't sit well with Keane.
“Playing under Roy Keane is easy. If you work hard, he praises you. If you don't, you get criticised. He's a fairer man than people give him credit for.”
~Daryl Murphy, Republic of Ireland
~Daryl Murphy, Republic of Ireland
No worries - that's how it should be at United.
There's a video online of Giggs' pre-match briefing to the players before his last game in charge - have to say his calmness comes across a little uninspiring.
Keane is the opposite - inspirational speeches are his strength - with more of a rousing, "We'll ****in' do 'em, we are United!" feel behind the message.
"I have been in many dressing rooms and with very important players but I remember reaching half time in games and it was only him that spoke, the one that made the speech. Sir Alex Ferguson was to one side and he (Keane) spoke. I am still profoundly affected by him.”
~Gerard Pique
"He was the most influential presence in the dressing room in the time we worked together. Roy took a lot of the onus off me in making sure the dressing room was operating at a high level of motivation.”
~Alex Ferguson
"If you don't have a burning desire to play after talking to Roy Keane, you're probably best off giving up. It gave me an extra incentive to work hard and that's what I'll do.”
~Harry Arter, Rep of Ireland
I wouldn't worry about Keane picking fights with players for not pulling their weight - there's very few who would test him by not giving their all
The only time I can think that led to conflict was with Pablo Counago at Ipswich. He had a history of attitude and fitness problems with his previous manager who said, "there are times when he seems to think that running is not in his contract" and such a lackadaisical attitude didn't sit well with Keane.
“Playing under Roy Keane is easy. If you work hard, he praises you. If you don't, you get criticised. He's a fairer man than people give him credit for.”
~Daryl Murphy, Republic of Ireland
No worries - that's how it should be at United.
As much as you would like Roy Keane to be our manager, the reality of it ever happening is highly unlikely.
The way his time at Sunderland and Ipswich ended, means he still needs to prove himself as a manager.
And even if he was to prove himself as a manager elsewhere, do you really think SAF, who is a major voice on the board, would consider Keane for the job?