Excelebration, Nathaniel, Immortal Verse, Danedream, Dream Ahead, Moonlight Cloud . . . I'm not necessarily saying they're all better than Strong Suit and Sea Moon but they are all Group 1 winners. As a side note, i hear Sea Moon has been tearing up the gallops in his home work of late. Edit: Just seen your post on the other thread. It appears there will be no persuading!!
Heard that myself about Sea Moon. Nathaniel is a slow soft ground horse, why would anyone run him at a Breeders Cup? He dosent have the gears. Immortal Verse is a soft ground filly, as is moonlight cloud, and moonlight cloud is a bad horse anyway, what possible race could she win at the Breeders Cup? Danedream has a reason for not going. Fair play if you can come up with a horse who would actually have a chance of winning that isnt going. Over the recent years, our very best have not went to America, its nothing new. Sea The Stars, New Approach, Zarkava and now Frankel.
I am no expert on the American form but I would think that Moonlight Cloud would have a big shout in the Filly and Mare Sprint . . . I may be wrong mind and i may have highlighted my ignorance too!
i always thought sea moon would go for the bc turf ,but to me if it was run like last years race at a crawl,then sarafina would totally outsprint him and the rest. the years conduit won it was when there was a good pace set by o'briens horse red rock canyon and the following year by a local horse.i dont believe conduit would of won from the kind of pace dangerous midge got last year and think sea moon would struggle if they went a crawl early on also.
When you see Turbulent Descent win that race, you will realise Moonlight Cloud wouldnt have a hope in hell on dirt. Turbulent Descent is the American banker of the meeting.
I think my original point has now been lost in the debate. The point was that BC was supposed to be "the best of the best" a "World Thoroughbred Championship". For that to happen you need the best horses in the world, but most of them are not there. Where are the Aussie champs? The South Americans? The South Africans? The Japanese? All staying at home. I know for a fact that BC are worried about the turn of events. I heard on the Newmarket grapevine that a senior BC executive has b****cked the people that work for them here in the UK trying to recruit runners for not doing a good enough job.
You have a good point Princess. But I think we have to see beyond the press releases and the hype. if there is one ting you can say about the Americans, it's that do hype very well. I don't think that what they do is too much different from what Australia does with the Melbourne Cup and the Spring Carnival. Royal Ascot gets the same treatment, as does the Arc festival. With all these major meetings shoe horned into a calendar, it's really difficult to get heaps of the best together. The UK did really well this year. A lot of the rivalry between the nations on each side of the Atlantic comes down to Timeform ratings, which I believe are slanted in the favour of the UK product. So this mine is better than yours stuff is pretty awful. You know a lot more than I do about the racing game so you have a better insight into the game. I was surprised at the cost of just getting a runner in the Breeders.I have to agree, if these heavy costs are not curtailed, then participation from off shore horses will drop away big time.
My boss has been heavily invovled with Breeders' Cup since it first began. He is great mates with two of the original founders, DG Van Clief and Ted Bassett, though they are no longer involved. He has been telling them for years that they need to sort out the entry fees. It was all well and good when they were the only international day on the scene, but as Japan, Dubai etc are now major players and offer free travel and accomodation, as well as no entry fees, they need to buck up their ideas. Just to demonstrate that I am not exagerating about the fees (not suggesting anyone thinks that), I point you to the evidence: https://members.breederscup.com/doc%20repository/other/2011HIG.pdf Go to page 15 which shows the entry fees for each race. Those are the basic entry fees for the nominated horses. If you have a non-nominated horse you need to refer back to page 13 which shows you the $100,000 or $200,000 that is payable. The entry fee is then applied ON TOP of this fee.
The costs would certainly rule out the South Americans and whilst a couple of the South Africans have ventured to Europe occasionally and to Dubai, they would probably consider that their horses are generally not good enough to take on the Americans in their own back yard. That could also be applied to many of the Australians as Black Caviar is their current standout performer and Bart Cummings’ wonder horse So You Think has not exactly dominated in the Northern Hemisphere. Given the lucrative nature of much of Japan’s racing calendar, why would they pay big dollars to travel and chase similar money? I do agree that the notion of the Breeders’ Cup as a World championship is laughable. There will never be a World championship. Even if they could get all the horses together in one place for free, the Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere have diametrically opposed racing seasons – it is spring in Oz and autumn in Europe.
The entry fees are a huge problem. You have a decent horse and you have a choice of going to the Breeders Cup, Japan, Hong Kong. Japan offers you free entry, transport etc and you might also manage to get a run in Hong Kong. Breeders Cup charges a huge entry fee and no help with transport. Which do you pick?? It's a no brainer, you go to the Far East. Last year Snow Fairy won a couple of races and picked up over £1.5 million
Breeders cup challenge races. In 2011 any nominated horse that wins a challenge race will recieve 1) An automatic starting position in the corresponding championship race 2) Pre - entry and entry fees paid 3) A travel allowance of $10,000 for North American Horses and $20,000 for international horses when they start in the Breeders Championships 4) A nominator award of $10,000 to the nominator of the foal or horse So with 68 races selected worldwide for you win and your in, you have 68 horses with hardly any cost to run in the Breeders.Then you have the the few that win the challenges, but do not want to run, which i cannot understand.
