Boring Boring Boring

Plymothian first, English second and British third sensible. I like to display my St George's flag on St George's day though I didn't bother this year as it rained heavily all day. Sorry if I got on my high horse but that is one thing I dispise about our country - the class system, we have to be the worst in the world for it (unless it's colour-related) and sometimes distant comes across as aloof which raises the hackles somewhat.

 

BTW, being patriotic doesn't mean I'm a member of the BNP either

On an altogether different note - it's bloody cold tonight, more like March than May!

 

We were the worst for the class system but I don't believe it is anywhere near what it used to be. People aren't anywhere near as deferential to class anymore. The only thing that talks in this World now is money not position in an old feudal system of rank and title. I spent 14 years in the Navy and in those times there was snobbery with some at it's worst. The wives believe it or not were worse than their husbands. I was doing some humping of boxes for a Captain once when I was an irk of the lowest order who was moving into a "Residence" I sat on a wooden box for a minute and was told by Mrs Captain to "get orf that box and move it". My Chief, who was a bit of a lefty at heart took umberage at that and had a go at her. I always remember his words to this day. "Madam, you may wear a gold ring on your finger but in the Navy it's the ones on your uniform that matter so if you don't like the service then move your own bloody boxes". He was a Chief of very long standing and did have to have words with the Captain about the problem. When they tried to reprimand him he said he worked for the Navy and not Civilians and if the Captain wanted to have words with the local Admiral with him he would gladly go along and have his say. Mind you he did get posted away a short time afterwards but he was a real hero of mine.

 

Sensible, I have been a service wife for more years than I care to remember and you are spot on - the wives carry the rank and this is something I've always remarked on, it's good to hear those words from someone else who served in a different service. It was during my time as a service wife that I came to despise the class system and one of the things I don't miss now that I'm out of it. I rarely had a problem with officers, just (some of) their wives. There were many instances of snobbery during my time living the service life, things that happened in the medical centre, the housing system and so on. It became much much worse when I was trying to get out of it. I remember the words of the housing officer to this day "techically you do not exist". He was very happy to take my money as substitute for rent which I wasn't allowed to pay as I was being evicted after the seperation from my ex husband but he then tried to charge me after I'd gone through the proper "marching out" procedure having spent 2 weeks cleaning the house (which my ex just walked away from) I told him he couldn't have it both ways.

 

You just reminded me of when my Mrs went into hospital in Gib to have our daughter. They put the old wrist band on her with what she thought was her name. When she had done the business end of her visit she looked at the band and it said "Wife of Petty Officer............". She went absolutely ballistic. However, when I was a young newly married oik and my wife had our first one I was at Dartmouth College. A car arrived at our flat when she came home and the driver presented her with a bunch of flowers. The card read "From Captain and Mrs Williams. Congratulations on the birth of your son". I went along to the house to thank her and she was the most gracious lady I've probably ever met. She spoke to me one to one as if she knew me and there wasn't a hint of snobbery. That bloke went on to be First Sea Lord and a Knighthood and he was a true gentleman. I met him again when he was First Sea Lord and that was in Gib some years later. He not only remembered me but also my name and nobody there knew I had served under him before so it was genuine. He said "nice to see you've done well for yourself and got on". I answered that he hadn't done too badly either which just brought a smile. They weren't all up their own arse.

 

Mrs. La La started the Boring Boring Boring 45 post's ago...
This has been anything but Boring..such great stories..please carry on..

 

Think I remember when posted abroad, at departure "Officer's and their Ladies" were invited to embark first, "Senior NCO's and there wives" second, Other Ranks (including their wives) third.....soooooo embarrassing

 

When I read this bit of the post I couldn't help but think it reminds me of the away end at Gillingham, - ( although, to be fair, the toilets aren't bad these days - it's the football that's a little sh1tty )

 

Firstly, well done to LaLaLa for trying to revive a moribund forum. I thought I'd spend some time joining in.

Secondly, I most certainly was not insulting the flag. It's just that it's so appropriate that there's a forest of them out there on the motorways and trunk roads every time England set out in a tournament and two weeks later, they're all over the central reservation. It's the perfect representation of England's footballing fortunes over the years. And they do primarily appear on white vans and boy-racer cars, it's a fact, not snobbery.

I don't much like golf & tennis as sports because I believe team sports build character and solo sports build egos. Most Olympic sports fail that test too plus it's drug ridden and sanctimonious while the puffed-up over spending it supports is nothing short of scandalous while there are people starving in Africa & elsewhere. I really do urge you to watch the BBC "2012" series to make you laugh and make you think.

Lastly, I have to say fox hunting does turn my stomach but then, so do cattle trucks on the motorway as you know where they are going. Have you noticed there are lots of pretty little baa-lambs frolicking at the moment? They'll be on your dinner table one Sunday soon. Unless you are a vegetarian [I'm decidedly not], I doubt you have the right to an opinion on fox hunting.

Most importantly though, I hate the level of ever increasing level of intrusion we get from governments of all hues. Don't drive your car [although we'll have to find some new taxes if you don't], don't smack your child, don't drink this [although we'll have to find some new taxes if you don't], don't eat that, don't go on holiday in that nasty aeroplane [although we'll have to find some new taxes if you don't], don't earn lots of money [although we'll have to find some new taxes if you don't], don't smoke that [although we'll have to find some new taxes if you don't], don't make sacrifices to get your kids into good schools.

Given we stuff millions of slaughtered animals down our necks every month and enjoy doing it, the ban on fox hunting is morally bankrupt and yet another intrusion into personal freedom.

Did anyone see this BBC 4 programme last night? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hr7k9 Much more interesting and entertaining than you're going to think it was and also some things to say about professional [roundhead] and amateur [cavalier] sport, which seem to be spot on for this Olympic summer.

Commercial for the truly wonderful and value for money BBC ends.

 

Having been the son of a long serving RAF father for the first 15 years of my life,I was totally ignorant of class divisions amongst the ranks at that age.

What I was aware of were the perks there were for a kid being brought up on RAF Camps in the austerity years during and after WW11,we never had shortages of anything,ration books existed but didn't really create a problem at my age that I was aware of.

One reason probably was that my father was a SWO man, that is a Station Warrant Officer,equivalent in the army would be possibly a RSM...a Regimental Sergeant Major.

I have many official RAF photos of my father at work.....on the Parade ground training the "other" Ranks and the Officers as well....with our dog Rover, a Labrador Retriever sitting beside him by the flag pole and at heel also walking up and down the ranks with him following the Station Commander as he inspected the parade. On a sadder note I have pictures of my father walking in front of many hearse's as airmen were officially buried and the camp photographer was obliged to take photos.Many of those deaths had been flying disasters (in peacetime) due to take off and landing cock-ups, I can remember coming home from school one day to the sight of a huge smouldering crater,less than two hundred yards from our married quarters and the wreckage of two aircraft spread all over the place having also destroyed the corner of one of the airmens billets....at least eight aircrew killed (it could of been far worse) all buried with military honours,which was one of the worst jobs my father had to do,also liaising with the relatives as well.

My most treasured memories of my father are his medals (5) , his Certificate of Service Book with exemplary and exceptional written against all his postings by his Commanding Officers,many letters written by his Commanding Officers regarding his character (for when he reached civvy street) and needed employment. the other item I have is his SWO baton or walking stick with the RAF Crest on a silver cap on top.

Years later when I did my National Service I kept very quiet about my fathers position in the RAF......those manic Corporal Drill Instuctors (totally evil,all of them) would have made my life hell if they only knew.

 

What with Mrs lalala dressed in her Nazi youth outfit and notdistant with his total snobbery in believing that any ordinary person could afford to eat lamb in this austere time, what is this world coming to. By the way milton, other ranks wives were referred to as "their women".

I can just visualise the marching bit plym. Army and Navy are taught to march but the RAF have to mince is what I was always told......... I spent 2 years working in an office at BRNC Dartmouth overlooking the parade ground and used to listen to the Gunnery Instructors taking the marching and drill with the Officers under training. Some of them were right comedians with the quips and comments they made and it was really entertaining. After there I went on a qualifying course for Petty Officer and had to take a squad on a parade as part of it. I'm quite good at mimicing even with accents if necessary (keeps the grandkids entertained these days). All of the class were bricking it when it was their turn except me. Went out there and blew my Course Instructor away with the precision and vocal content of it all which given my 2 years of instruction previously wasn't a surprise to me. Even chucked in a couple of funnies I'd heard. I can still do the drill bit even to this day but only with the kids and I always have to turn into Mr Tumble somewhere in the middle.

 

sensible......the drill instructors might of cracked the odd joke.....but if they ever caught you enjoying it...your life could be turned to hell.

The favourite was to get you all standing to attention at the foot of your billet bed.......then scream for you to all get outside on parade.....the problem was that your Lee-Enfield rifle was chained up at the end of the billet...and seeing that you always had to go on parade with the weapon issued to you.....you can imagine the chaos as everyone was waiting for the chain to be pulled clear of the rifles and discover where your gun was and run out side and line up in the correct order (there was about sixty of us) a bit like the devil take the hindmost....the corporal got hysterical with the last one out.....and gave you extra drill.

 

Ah, this has now become an interesting thread.

Is it fair to compare blood sports with eating meat? One is torn apart by a pack of dogs for "pleasure" or "sport" call it what you will. The slaughter of cattle is regulated and is eaten to survive. Ah I hear you say: you don't need meat to survive you can be a veggi! My answer to that one is have you seen your average vegetarian? They are usually unhealthily skinny and aneomic-looking. Why do we have molars if we aren't supposed to eat meat? We have done so since the beginning of time.

Going back to service life (in reply to sensible) I think it's time it was shaken up a little. I realise there has to be a line drawn between officers and non commisioned personelle but some things should have changed years ago. One thing that is unkind and outdated is the use of the term "dependants" meaning your wife and children. It makes it sound like your family are a financial burden - nothing more or less, in most cases the wife goes out to work anyway. I could go on and on about this subject and instances where I have been left feeling inferior to others but I won't bore you with it. What I will say is that my ex husband started out as a junior tech when I first met him and he has now retired as a warrant officer - the highest rank a NCO can go. The higher he climbed in rank the more he treated me as an inferior but I was having none of it (hence the divorce) but he absolutely lived for the service, it was his whole life and as much so as any officer.

The final irony I always wanted a Cyprus posting and finally he was given it....a few months after the divorce

 

My family are a financial burden and my wife agrees. In fact it is the only thing we have ever agreed on. They are the Villa in Spain and swimming pool attached I will never own.

I'm going to whisper this quietly so pay attention cause I don't want her indoors to listen in. When I first met "She" I was a young oik with an ambition to be a 3 badge nobody. 3 badges is what you get when you have been in 12 years, one for each 4 years of being a good boy. No rank and just a symbol of age and time served. She on the other hand would be an Admiral if we swapped places. I was 20 when I got married and by the time I was 24, only just at that, I was a Petty Officer equivalent of Sargeant in the other forces. Had I been ambitious myself I could not have reached that rank any quicker. Within 6 months I had passed my first promotion exam and never failed one after that passing first time every time. Not me boasting by the way just her with a very sharp toe and kicking me to earn more and get on. Had I stayed in there is every possibility I would have ended as a Fleet Chief which is the others Warrant Officer but in the end I had enough of being away and working for prats. The last CO I had was an arrogant pillock of the first order. He was the main reason I gave notice much to the disgust of my section boss. When I left the place I had to go and see him as a leaving Senior Rank which they all did even though I saw him every day. He told me he was grateful for my work and was sorry I had chosen to leave the Navy. I was allowed to say something back without witnesses so I swallowed hard and went for it. I told him that the thought of having to ever work for someone like him again was the reason I was leaving and I hoped he was proud of himself. The tirade was a tad longer than that but I won't give chapter and verse. To his credit he just looked at me and didn't react when I thought he was going to go ape. He said thank you again and I left feeling 20 foot tall. His Secretary heard me when I thought there was nobody listening. She was a Wren Officer. When I got outside his office and closed the door she gave me a hug, kiss on the cheek and told me I was her hero.

 

I know I'm a bit late with this but many many years ago my friend's husband was an officer in the Navy and they were having a christmas do and if you didn't have a female to acompany you, you weren't allowed to go so I agreed to go to the dinner with a friend of his. In the mess before the meal the Captain and his Australian wife were doing the rounds. My friend was a fiery so and so and I was gobsmacked to hear her so subservant when the Captains wife was talking to her. Because I was a guest of someone and knew he would get into trouble if I spoke out of turn I did my best at evading her as I wouldn't have let her speak to me the way she was talking to all the wives. When we went into dinner my seat was next to the top table and she was one place away from me .... all night I didn't make eye contact although I knew she was trying to get my attention. When I finally gave in and looked in her direction all she wanted to say was that I was wearing a gorgeous dress and had beautiful nails ..... and there was me thinking I'd have to walk the plank after our conversation lol

 

Better late than never Gat as they say.

One thing I will add is that most of this if not all is stories of years ago and it isn't quite like it used to be now. Where I worked until I retired there was a woman employed in a temporary post who I was told was married to the Flag Officer (Submarines) which is a Rear Admiral's post. She was a Clerical Assistant. I thought people were extracting the urine to be honest so I asked her outright one day during lunch break. She said it was true but I still thought she was in on some joke on me. Next day she brought in some photos of a Mess Dinner she had been to recently and sure enough there was this Admiral stood next to her. Now when I was in the mob an Admiral's wife would have been organising the Dinner Parties and social calendar not working as an office temp. When they organised a leaving party for me, just to make sure I really was going I think, she brought hubby along and I had a real long chat with him about Dartmouth College and the old days. He was a real laugh and a great bloke to talk to as well as joining in with everyone else. So not up his own arse. How times change and she definately wasn't a "lady". Absolutely down to earth and no airs and graces whatsoever. But, I do recognise the ones that Gat describes from years ago.

 

You missed a good posting Mrs. lalala, Cyprus was the best time of my life...thanks sensible for reminding me it was OR's and their "women"...tbh I thought it was when I wrote the original....then I thought "no the services couldn't be so crass!" I disliked many aspects of my Brylcreemed life (dont be harsh on me Sensible) ....but I did like the unpredictability of it all, postings etc and of course NAAFI sessions....that was my only medal...first in the NAAFI queue three days running, I was so proud!

PS Good luck to you all...I'm pleased that "The Grims" survived...stick with your home town team...who knows one day you may come marchin' in yourself! (Cue horrible memories of the parade square)

 

The animals we happily eat are bred in captivity, kept in unnatural surroundings despite UK regulation, not forgetting that the cheap meat Sensible apparently eats comes from abroad where in many cases conditions are poor, and are slaughtered remorselessly when it is most economically viable to do so.

A fox is born in the wild, lives a natural life including the ability to mate etc and dies in a natural process through what is effectively predation. Rather than being transported and pushed helplessly into to the rotating knives, it has a very reasonable chance of escaping even if it is chased.

It's true the hunters enjoy their "sport" although I suspect it's more the tradition, the thrill of the ride & the chase rather than the kill. We on the other hand enjoy eating meat and create a whole cold-hearted industry to support that.

I repeat, I'm not and never have been a hunt supporter neither am a vegetarian but looking at it logically, fox hunting has at least as much going for it morally as eating meat.

 

Sorry Distant I don't agree with your analysis. One is killing for food and the other for "tradition" as you put it. Most all of the animal kingdom kill other species for food, it is the way it is - you cannot argue with that. I always thought that cattle going into the food chain were stunned before being killed and let's not forget in all of this that these animals are bred solely for human food - they wouldn't even exist if we gave up meat.

 

notDistant......where was the ...."the thrill of the ride and the chase"...when my family and I were engulfed by the hunt followers using the open road like a racing track at risk to any other user........I tell you what I would have liked some of them to have been breathalysed..........I can't remember if it was before it came into law.