Match Day Thread Bolton Wanderers v Sunderland - Saturday 21st September KO 15:00

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by RTB, Sep 19, 2019.

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Your prediction

Poll closed Sep 21, 2019.
  1. Home win

    9.1%
  2. Away win

    54.5%
  3. 1-1

    24.2%
  4. 1-3

    12.1%
  1. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    Yeah, I thought Grigg would score goals, based on his goal record. That said I’d never seen the kid play, and I’d like to think the gaffer had, and had considered if he’d work in a system with the players at the club.

    All clubs at this level spend little amounts generally, we’ve spent more than most, and remember we’ve got players that were with us in the Premier League still here, more so last season. The owners went on record as saying they’d provided him with ‘10 times the standard playing budget for league one’. Cost cutting by our standards sure, by the leagues standard we are still at the top.

    We can all agree the scouting needs a major overhaul of course.
     
    #201
  2. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    I'm dubious about how many of the players we've signed have been his decision and when they have been, have they been his first choice or fourth choice. The size of the wage budget has had a lot to do with legacy players like Matthews, Love, Catts and Oviedo some of which were actually borderline useless even at league one and we've only just now got rid of.

    I think our squad isn't automatic promotion quality and who is to blame for that isn't clear. You can blame the manager, the owner or the scouts. We don't know.
     
    #202
  3. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    But what we do know is he picks the team, he chooses the system, he makes terrible substitutions at the wrong time and plays lads out of position.

    What we see on the pitch mate, tactical, substitutes, his decision making, the lack of belief and motivation, regardless of how much input he had in the transfers, he picks the team.

    That’s undeniable, and that’s one of the major failings.

    We can all agree the squad isn’t brimming with quality, but anyone that says the sides he picks, changes he makes are maximising it is either blind, or blindly defending him.

    That’s cast iron mate.

    Ive a horrible feeling a lot of our ‘scouting’ is done via forums. I say this as both Grigg and Leadbitter were discussed well before we were linked and they actually signed.
     
    #203
  4. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    We've conceded the first goal in over half of our last 16 games.

    That's down to the manager, the way he prepares the team and his tactics.

    He stands on the touchline like a wax dummy with a pulse.
     
    #204
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  5. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that Mbappe is a canny player.

    Does he play players out of position? O'Nien has to fill in at RB because McLaughlin is another below par for league one but who else is?

    The teams he puts out are pretty much the same as what I would, what would your first choice team be? I don't know why Ozturk didn't play today as he's been fine and there's often weird little decisions like that but in terms of formation and key players I'm nearly always happy enough with what he puts out. Three at the back was **** and he sharp ditched it.

    I don't know what else he can do. We play a lot of attacking players already, if we played more we'd concede two or three every game instead of one.
     
    #205
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  6. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    I’d play Embleton, we’ve lacked drive and impetus in midfield, he’s a player there, desperate to represent the club, but he will not play him.

    I’d use one of McGeady or Maguire as a number 10 so the midfield isn’t flat as a fart, I’d play Ozturk every game, as he can actually defend.

    The saving grace could well be McNulty if we can get a run of games out of him.

    The in game substitutions beggar belief, they never really have an impact. He changes defensive players when we need goals.

    I’m sure there’s more if I spent the time. The tide hasn’t turned against him for nothing mate, he’s quite a likeable fella as far as that goes.
     
    #206
  7. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    Embleton hasn't looked great to me when he's had a chance but he's worth another go. I don't know why Ozturk was dropped, that was a weird one.

    Doesn't sound like you'd change a lot tbh, a tweak here or there but it's not like you'd swap half the team out. We've had managers like that in recent history where you're wondering what they're thinking but one or two differences of opinion doesn't mean a lot to me.

    McNulty looks a cut above for sure. Hope he can stay fit and play because he looks on another level to Wyke and Grigg. He can make things happen on his own.
     
    #207
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  8. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    That’s the point though, these 1 or 2 simple tweaks, that’s the difference between drawing at Bolton and winning. Between 2 draws at him against poor sides. We are too defensive and we still can’t defend.

    3 outfield changes is 30% of your team mate, 30% of anything is significant.
     
    #208
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  9. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    He does play Ozturk usually he just didn't today for some reason, the only personnel change you're suggesting is Embleton who hasn't impressed with the chances he's had and one minor tweak to the formation.

    Doesn't scream Ross out to me. You might find that a different manager picks a weirder team than Ross does and gets worse results.
     
    #209
  10. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    It’s not the first time he’s dropped Ozturk, he doesn’t play Embleton, persevering with a midfield with zero creativity when we could accommodate, easily, 3 of Embleton, Gooch, Maguire and McGeady and actually try and win games.

    We aren’t gonna agree on this mate, and that’s sound, after all that’s what forums are about, to share opinions.

    What I will end on though is a repetition of the facts.

    We stayed down, and have won 30% of our last 31 games. If you genuinely think that’s good enough, then fair play.

    I absolutely don’t.
     
    #210
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  11. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    We played Maguire, McGeady and Gooch today mate and that's standard for Ross. We play four attackers and two fairly progressive CMs every game.

    To counter your stats we hardly ever lose and if a team is tough to beat but doesn't score enough that suggests a tweak rather than an overhaul. New owners with a big budget would provide that tweak and in style.
     
    #211
  12. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    If a team draws it finishes mid table mate. Not losing is not good enough.

    If you drew every game in a season you would be relegated. If you won half and lost half you would stay up. In fact, you’d likely hit play offs.

    Team go out of World Cups unbeaten. Only teams that win regularly get anywhere. We won 3 of the last 9 last season and have already shanked the first 9 of this. Thank **** we are in a piss poor league or we’d be nowhere (we could be 11th in theory after next game).

    He’s **** mate, and it’s gonna be irrelevant, as it’s fairly obvious he’s going to go either way.

    I’ll gladly hold my hands up if his replacement doesn’t immediately improve the team.
     
    #212
  13. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    I'm not suggesting that drawing every game is the way forward I'm saying that being a tough, battling team, which we are, is a good foundation for new owners to add to.

    He's not a **** manager, if anything his squad is ****. If you put them all up for sale for dirt cheap we wouldn't get many offers for any of them by any teams in this division. Cattermole was our best midfielder last season and nobody was interested in him for free. You think Peterborough or Fleetwood are chomping at the bit for Wyke and Flanagan?
     
    #213
  14. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    Both of whom he signed...
     
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  15. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    Who were signed when he was manager at any rate.
     
    #215
  16. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    So, let’s go along with this ‘who signed them’ thing then.

    Who did? We’ve no director of football. Nobody else of a footballing capacity above him. Let’s stop that.

    Ok, you like him, you wanna stick with him. There’s nobody else at the club making final decisions on signings, and if there is why isn’t he rejecting the signings.

    I accept our scouting system is poor, I don’t believe for a second Jack hasn’t either targeted or green lighted the signings.

    He’s the manager mate. It’s in him. It’s on him if players don’t fit, it’s on him if we don’t win games, it’s on him that we won 3 out of the last 9 in the playoffs and played like a pub team at Wembley.

    There’s evidence galore of his failings and not a single thing to back up that he can be exonerated of his responsibility.

    Even if it was signings being forced on him, by the literally nobody above him at the club on a footballing level, then I’d think ‘you weak bastard’ anyway.

    We went for 2 strikers last summer, Wyke and Eisa. The plan was to sign both. Wyke wasn’t a plan B, we fought hard to get him.
     
    #216
  17. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    It's entirely possible that some signings have been more or less forced on him because it's the best the club could manage. It happens at the biggest clubs in the world although that's more to do with the whim of the owner than the budget. Wasn't it Mourinho that Shevchenkho got forced on? Weak bastard I don't think so.

    It's quite likely that the scouts present Donald and Ross with a list of potential signings, maybe Donald rules some out because of the budget then we fail to get our remaining targets and have to settle for less. Do any of our signings look like first choice to you? We tried to get Marquis and Eaves ahead of Grigg if I recall.

    I think you're underestimating how much the wage budget was focused on by Donald etc and how much of it was out of Ross' hands. It was a huge focus because it was a huge problem and there wasn't much room for luxury of choice. I doubt Ross likes bang average players but that's what he's got to work with.
     
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  18. Nads

    Nads Superstar Mod

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    For the record, I don’t think he’s weak. That was my point. I don’t believe for a second he’s had players forced on him without his agreement.

    He knew the budgets and constraints when he took the job of course, I doubt he was expecting us to be signing England internationals and Messi.

    We can’t start comparing our setup to Abramovich and Chelsea to defend Ross.

    He’s failed mate, and continues to fail. We just see with Bolton. We are still in League One. He’s failed once and he continues to show no sign of changing that.

    Make all the excuses you like in the world for him, I personally, and the 4,000 today as heard on Sky, and the thousands at the end of the Oxford and Rotherham games won’t take any of them.

    I’ve only lost patience this week. 30 games is more than enough. The turgid football, lack of motivation and inability to spark any life into the side either tactically or via substitutions is indisputable, visible, and the only consistency we have had under him.

    He mate we’ll have a good career in football and I’d quite like him to do that. He simply hasn’t worked for us.

    Even before the takeover, Donald said the expectation was promotion and we should be aiming for 100 points. He didn’t say he expected 100 points, but that we should be aiming for it.

    We’d have to win 33 of our games remaining to get that, we likely need to win 25 of them to go up.

    Absolutely no chance without change.

    I’m sick of hearing ‘average players’ etc. Yes, they are not all that, but it’s League One and the standard is abysmal. We are winning 1 in 3. It cannot continue.

    Managers lose their jobs for a reason, the reason being they have failed to do their job and get the best out of their players.

    There’s no point going in circles when the facts are clear as day. Winning 1 in 3 at this level is not acceptable in any way, shape or form. And team with far weaker squads than ours, well, they are winning more games. Black and white.

    All our conversation has done is made me even more certain of it.
     
    #218
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  19. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    Good chat but I'd better get off to bed, might have to be up early to change nappies and wipe arseholes. I don't think we're going to agree about Ross but at least there's some debate to be had and it's not all criticism like it was under Moyes, Coleman and Grayson.
     
    #219
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  20. flandersmackem

    flandersmackem Well-Known Member

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    Just watched Ross's post match interview on SAFC.com...he looks a broken man. I've always supported this guy and i'm sure one day he will find a club where things will click for him....sadly it won't be Sunderland, time to move on Jack.
     
    #220
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