Actually the league and prem are full of Muslim players but they're all from Africa and Europe. It's not so much about their religion either. It's as you said, BRITISH pakistani, indian youngsters who are being overlooked. I was at one trial where there was one indian teenager having trials at Wycombe and he pissed over every other youngster there. The look on our faces when he wasn't picked. I think all of us sat there (of all races) knew it was discrimination. I've seen it elsewhere and I genuinely feel sorry for them. Kids are kids ffs, you just alienate them with that ****. What are these Racial Equality groups doing to address that.
black managers
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Actually the league and prem are full of Muslim players but they're all from Africa and Europe. It's not so much about their religion either. It's as you said, BRITISH pakistani, indian youngsters who are being overlooked. I was at one trial where there was one indian teenager having trials at Wycombe and he pissed over every other youngster there. The look on our faces when he wasn't picked. I think all of us sat there (of all races) knew it was discrimination. I've seen it elsewhere and I genuinely feel sorry for them. Kids are kids ffs, you just alienate them with that ****. What are these Racial Equality groups doing to address that.
Is it wrong to blame their parents? Their culture is based around the parents choices in many ways. Academic qualifications take priority over everything else. Very few footballers are university educated. It takes dedication and allows little time for anything else so perhaps right now its rarely an option even if they are scouted.
Over the coming decades, as the current generatiom lf british asians have children, i imagine we will see more and more playing football. Todays british asian youth are far more independent than the last generation and tge next one will be even more so.
Over the coming decades, as the current generatiom lf british asians have children, i imagine we will see more and more playing football. Todays british asian youth are far more independent than the last generation and tge next one will be even more so.
Thats plain wrong. I went to a school with a lad from a pakistani background. He was scouted by blackburn rovers, who were decent at the time. It was his choice not to proceed as he couldnt commit.
How old were the scouts at wycombe?
Why, you going to write a letter of complaint? 
I don't know, in 30's/40's from memory. UIR you've stated one personal case but for every one of those, there's countless who will tell you their own personal experience. I think you're right about the academic side, that's my perception too, but I've met plenty who aren't academic and parents are pretty indifferent to what they do also. For them the system is failing them.
I don't know, in 30's/40's from memory. UIR you've stated one personal case but for every one of those, there's countless who will tell you their own personal experience. I think you're right about the academic side, that's my perception too, but I've met plenty who aren't academic and parents are pretty indifferent to what they do also. For them the system is failing them.
Also UIR you just have to compare the number of British Asians in professional cricket and you can see the problem lies with football rather than the parents. The perception in cricket must be that sub-continent players are good, but in football they're not.
Yeh been having tge same problem.
And i agree tge system is failing them to some extent. I think theres also concern about a lack of commitment due to the perception that academics will take priority. That in itself is a form of discrimination and no doubt gives some the excuse to turn them down.
I do think it will change naturally.
And i agree tge system is failing them to some extent. I think theres also concern about a lack of commitment due to the perception that academics will take priority. That in itself is a form of discrimination and no doubt gives some the excuse to turn them down.
I do think it will change naturally.
Im not a follower of cricket. Does it require the same near 100% dedication that football requires? How many go to university and can have a successful cricket career? Cricket is also huge over in india and pakistan so maybe its a preference for many.
This is what I meant when I said you've got it wrong.
I do not mean any of the things you say. I meant exactly what Chief said. What I want and I am sure what the debate is about is equality of opportunity between races rather than equal numbers of black managers irrespective of ability.
In other words the black candidates should have the opportunity to be considered and interviewed for a coaching job if they have the same qualifications and qualities and experience as white candidates. At the moment the complaint is that they are not even given that chance or at least there is that possibility that it is happening.
There is well the possibility that there are no more than 2 deserving black people to manage a big football club. But it is worth looking into. Why would there be such a discrepancy between players (25-30%) and managers. (2-3 %) disinterest? No qualifications ? We just need to look into it.
To put the record straight - I believe in equality of opportunity. And I believe that giving a person a job just on the basis of colour is wrong whether black , white, yellow, brown and others.
Yes it does.
University has nothing to do with cricket.
No, football is more popular.
Tbh even if any of that was true which it isn't, it doesn't explain the chasm between football and cricket. Not a mild imbalance, it's chalk and cheese.
Theres a joke there about ***inis and corners, but would get branded "racist" if I cracked it. But 15 years ago, I was involved in a charity group with a wild mixture of catholic and protestant, one jewish, 3 asian (could have been muslim or sikh) and a mixture of UK inc geodies, northern and southern ireland welsh scots, etc etc.
Every week there was banter, some of it religion, some about race, some about accents. Was it in bad taste? Not at all, we all give it and took it in the context it was meant. Today it would be deemed racist, yet no one was offended.
Seems on the case of racism and humour we have taken several steps backwards.
Every week there was banter, some of it religion, some about race, some about accents. Was it in bad taste? Not at all, we all give it and took it in the context it was meant. Today it would be deemed racist, yet no one was offended.
Seems on the case of racism and humour we have taken several steps backwards.
Those situations exist today tbf. We have that banter between friends and at work even now. Nobody has a problem with it at all.
I don't think racism in football is the traditional style of racism. It's more to do with poor misconceptions. Perhaps the idea that black ppl make good footballers but don't have the footballing knowledge (not that they're idiots) to be successful managers. As soon as one proves to be a success then that myth will be wiped also. Until then maybe the confidence isn't there.
Btw anyone remember this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxFqv1QDI3Q
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29996225
"The new body has also recommended introducing networking events aimed at eradicating what it describes as an "insider culture" where jobs are handed out on the basis of "who you know, not what you know"."
That's the main thing we need in football imo. Yes, a lot of the black managers are out of work because they are not very good managers, but equally a lot of white managers are in jobs, often quite big jobs, despite being equally **** because they have connections.
Like Kinnear at Newcastle claiming he can 'pick up the phone and talk to any manager about buying a player'. Or Bryan Robson in that TV sting claiming if he was made a manager he'd call SAF and loan some young players no matter what club he joined. In any other business that would be called anticompetitive practices and would be investigated, but in football people just ignore it.
Even when clubs actually do interview managers, it ends up being some informal chat like John Henry strolling down the street with Martinez. Accusations of bias will always hang over a process which is so obviously flawed and lacking fairness, so the only way to shut up the coaches crying discrimination is to actually have a fair selection process, that puts them up against other candidates and shows that they aren't good enough in an objective way. That will also help the talented black managers get into the game, as well as the talented young white managers who are squeezed out for dinosaurs with the right connections like Warnock et al.
"The new body has also recommended introducing networking events aimed at eradicating what it describes as an "insider culture" where jobs are handed out on the basis of "who you know, not what you know"."
That's the main thing we need in football imo. Yes, a lot of the black managers are out of work because they are not very good managers, but equally a lot of white managers are in jobs, often quite big jobs, despite being equally **** because they have connections.
Like Kinnear at Newcastle claiming he can 'pick up the phone and talk to any manager about buying a player'. Or Bryan Robson in that TV sting claiming if he was made a manager he'd call SAF and loan some young players no matter what club he joined. In any other business that would be called anticompetitive practices and would be investigated, but in football people just ignore it.
Even when clubs actually do interview managers, it ends up being some informal chat like John Henry strolling down the street with Martinez. Accusations of bias will always hang over a process which is so obviously flawed and lacking fairness, so the only way to shut up the coaches crying discrimination is to actually have a fair selection process, that puts them up against other candidates and shows that they aren't good enough in an objective way. That will also help the talented black managers get into the game, as well as the talented young white managers who are squeezed out for dinosaurs with the right connections like Warnock et al.
Out of interest, as I see it as more relevant, what percentage of players were black or of another ethnicity other than white 20 or 30 years ago? That would fit more accurately with today's managerial percentage. Maybe in 20 or 30 more years we will have ~30% black managers in the league as the current players age?
The one thing black managers need more than anything, is a genuine success story. At the moment any black managers given a chance have, lets face it, been pretty rubbish. Ince has been OK at best, Barnes shocking. Chris Houghton probably the best I can think of in terms of high profile. If one of them guys can make a real impact then I'm sure almost over night you might see some change. Problem is, it's hard enough for any English manager to get a top job nowadays, let alone a black English manager (of which there will be considerably less).
Are there even that many black managers in top level football anywhere in Europe? Can't imagine with the racism in some countries like Spain and Russia that there would be many. So even when foreign managers are brought into the P.L, they are likely to be white.
Are there even that many black managers in top level football anywhere in Europe? Can't imagine with the racism in some countries like Spain and Russia that there would be many. So even when foreign managers are brought into the P.L, they are likely to be white.
Seedorf, kluivert, giggs, viera and rio are stront possibilities to become managers. Seedorf already is/was and the rest are either assistants or still playing.
Jean Tigana was not very good for Fulham.
Don't think he's done a great deal since, although he was ok in France prior to coming over here.
Davids did well over here!
Don't think he's done a great deal since, although he was ok in France prior to coming over here.
Davids did well over here!