Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

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Spurf said:
Since you insist on having this debate it's about time a few facts were inserted.

1. The 'neo-liberal' policies introduced by Thatcher were the first to be introduced into an advanced Western Economy, this was quickly followed by Reagan and then the rest of the world. Up until then the Chicago University Economics spearheaded by Milton Friedman had only been tried in South America in CIA led coups. This is why Pinochet was a friend of Thatcher. She changed the world.

2. The neo liberal policies are in force today, everywhere, and are directly responsible for the economic mess the world is in today. As we speak thay are being introduced into Cyprus, the latest victim. Wholesale privatisation, the removal of workers rights and a low wage economy are the name of the game. This enriches the rich at the expense of the masses.

3. Unless you are rich then I can see no logical reason why you would support these policies. If you are not rich and you do, then you are either badly misinformed or just plain stupid.

Thatcher's legacy is all around us today. Workers rights that resemble the 18th century, financial cutbacks, job losses, and low pay. I speak btw, in case you think I am some looney lefty, as a successful buisnessman. The difference is I have taken the trouble to inform myself on these matters, rather that regurgitate the kind off crap you will read in the such places as the Daily Mail.
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I am neither misinformed, not stupid. Neither am I rich. However, I disagree with virtually everything you have said. I do not read The Daily Mail - it's a ghastly rag - it's no more than The Sun minus the tits.

But, I am weary of this debate now. It's clear that we are never going to all agree. It started as a discussion about Thatcher and has since degenerated into a political mud slinging contest. So, let's agree to disagree, and get back to football.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
I am neither misinformed, not stupid. Neither am I rich. However, I disagree with virtually everything you have said. I do not read The Daily Mail - it's a ghastly rag - it's no more than The Sun minus the tits.

But, I am weary of this debate now. It's clear that we are never going to all agree. It started as a discussion about Thatcher and has since degenerated into a political mud slinging contest. So, let's agree to disagree, and get back to football.
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Good Idea!
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
I am neither misinformed, not stupid. Neither am I rich. However, I disagree with virtually everything you have said. I do not read The Daily Mail - it's a ghastly rag - it's no more than The Sun minus the tits.

But, I am weary of this debate now. It's clear that we are never going to all agree. It started as a discussion about Thatcher and has since degenerated into a political mud slinging contest. So, let's agree to disagree, and get back to football.
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Sorry Spurf, but I mirror NSS's thoughts to the letter. Think it might be a good time to draw a line under this debate before we seriously damage our forum 'relationships'......... <peacedove>
 
Good, as I said in the first place when I closed the RIP thread this will only lead to serious disagreement.

As NSIS and Relayer have said let's get back to football. <ok>
 
Seeing as Lukaku is to be sent out on loan next season,do you guy's think we out to offer to bring him here.A striker ,which we need,and it would'nt cost as much as buying one(although i think we need two)
 
Teams have consistently proved that you can lose your better players and still maintain challenges. When Archie and Crooks came in together they gelled instantly and learnt each others game. So changing the two strikers which we have to do won't be a catastrophe. Can we see Ade and Defoe lasting? No so let's get two.

If Bale has to go then let's get 50mill and spend it on top quality replacements.
 
totsfan said:
Seeing as Lukaku is to be sent out on loan next season,do you guy's think we out to offer to bring him here.A striker ,which we need,and it would'nt cost as much as buying one(although i think we need two)
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Would love to have him. I think he has real potential. Can I see The Chavs letting us have him?...Er, No, unfortunately.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
There won't be a minute's silence, because some people at every ground will boo and it will prove to be an embarassment. Love or hate the woman, you shouldn't boo; she's died, everybody deserves some mark of respect at that time.

Thatcher did transform the economy (which was desperately needed), but she replaced manufacturing and other heavy industry with finance and services. That has left Britain relying on being a financial and tourist centre with many service industries, but producing little. As the government has run up debt year after year to plug the balance of payments deficit, many have benefited from her policies for a relatively long period of time, but future generations will suffer. Indeed, we are suffering now because debt has had to be addressed. Her economic policies boosted those who got jobs in these new markets, but she didn't care about the social cost to the rest- those like the miners.
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Tory/Neo-Liberal ideology is all about short term gain (for the rich) at the expense of everybody else. Why should people not boo? Communities that she destroyed, families which she ripped apart are having to pay for her funeral, so much for democracy eh? Thatcher didn't transform the economy at all, she created a credit bubble after deals with the banks and once that mirage wore off she left the country where it is now. There is no hope for anybody in this country now, nobody under the age of 25 can afford a home, people are coming out of Uni with 1st degrees and are working in call centres. Individual talent has been wasted thanks to Thatcher. Would Hitler deserve a mark of respect from Hapoel Tel Aviv fans just because he's died? Utter hypocrisy.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
The debt level that now has to be addressed can be laid firmly at the feet of Blair & Brown!..they had 13 years between them to implement their ideas and agenda. The result was a debt explosion, the like of which had never been seen in this country before.
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Blair was a Tory in disguise, Brown not much better but he was more representative of old Labour anyway.

The debt level has nothing to do with Brown or Blair and everything to do with Thatcher and now Cameron/Osbourne. Thatcher destroyed industry in this country and whilst she was at it sold us out to the greedy corporations, so when your 90 year old neighbour can't afford that little bit extra British Gas are charging for the gas bill and is forced to freeze to death or when you can't afford to send your child to a good state school because Virgin Trains are charging £10 extra per week for a ticket just remember that.

The media (which is dominated by Tories) has been used to manipulate and brainwash the public. Jeremy Kyle displayed on ITV every day of the week to show the nation how "vile" these "benefit scroungers" are and just how many of them we have in society when the facts and evidence show benefit fraud is at 0.3% and 80% of claimants are in work but have to claim because they aren't being paid enough by the employers that pay minimum wage and exploit them. Cameron crying out and using the poor communities that live in relative deprivation to demonstrate how "Broken" society is etc. Brown had the right idea in that spending was better than cutting in order to sort out the economy. The Tories haven't cut out anything of note, all they've done is target benefits and the poor communities which cost little, by comparison Tax Evasion and evidence costs infinitely more, why not go after them?

We live in a country now where the people own nothing, barely own their own homes thanks to mortgages (which people will never be able to pay off anyway), constantly in debt thanks to loan, we soon won't even own hospitals and prisons and are at the mercy of the banks who continue to rob us blind.

In many ways neo-liberalism is not far off Kleptocracy which it condemns. We live in a tainted society where people are motivated purely and only by money where sentiment means nothing, Price over Value mentality, football in many ways is a classic example of this

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District Line said:
Blair was a Tory in disguise, Brown not much better but he was more representative of old Labour anyway.

The debt level has nothing to do with Brown or Blair and everything to do with Thatcher and now Cameron/Osbourne. Thatcher destroyed industry in this country and whilst she was at it sold us out to the greedy corporations, so when your 90 year old neighbour can't afford that little bit extra British Gas are charging for the gas bill and is forced to freeze to death or when you can't afford to send your child to a good state school because Virgin Trains are charging £10 extra per week for a ticket just remember that.

The media (which is dominated by Tories) has been used to manipulate and brainwash the public. Jeremy Kyle displayed on ITV every day of the week to show the nation how "vile" these "benefit scroungers" are and just how many of them we have in society when the facts and evidence show benefit fraud is at 0.3% and 80% of claimants are in work but have to claim because they aren't being paid enough by the employers that pay minimum wage and exploit them. Cameron crying out and using the poor communities that live in relative deprivation to demonstrate how "Broken" society is etc. Brown had the right idea in that spending was better than cutting in order to sort out the economy. The Tories haven't cut out anything of note, all they've done is target benefits and the poor communities which cost little, by comparison Tax Evasion and evidence costs infinitely more, why not go after them?

We live in a country now where the people own nothing, barely own their own homes thanks to mortgages (which people will never be able to pay off anyway), constantly in debt thanks to loan, we soon won't even own hospitals and prisons and are at the mercy of the banks who continue to rob us blind.

In many ways neo-liberalism is not far off Kleptocracy which it condemns. We live in a tainted society where people are motivated purely and only by money where sentiment means nothing, Price over Value mentality, football in many ways is a classic example of this

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As has been said, this subject has been put to bed. I would just add that I totally disagree with your version of events.
 
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