Interesting article
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rafael-van-der-vaart-exclusive-6113007
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rafael-van-der-vaart-exclusive-6113007
VDV said:
Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms
- Thread starter ShelfSideSpur
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Reading that just makes me angry! I assumed, like many of us, that he'd reluctantly gone to Hamburg to join his wife. To discover that useless ****wit was responsible!...
AVB and his ego! I wonder how much he cost us. I still maintain that he was responsible for disenchanting Benny over a trivial and stupid matter. Now we know he was responsible for us losing VDV, then there were the issues with Adebayor with too many all too ready to blame the player IMO. Sherwood showed what might have been possible with this particular player.
I am not impressed that Levy had employed such an egotistical idiot at considerable expense to effectively **** up a good team.
I am not impressed that Levy had employed such an egotistical idiot at considerable expense to effectively **** up a good team.
VDV for me was a breath of fresh air, all flair and style, not just a robot who follows orders.
AVB clearly had a bit of an ego and it clearly had negative effects. Its worth remembering that Ade does always seem to have been a troublemaker and although some managers have got on with him, he always seems to fall out with someone sooner or later. There is a common denominator there IMO. The BAE situation was probably a little more 2 sided and AVB definitely comes out of it worse off, even if personally I can see why he took the stance he seemed to. The VdV news today was sad to hear, but nice in a way to reaffirm that he holds the club in such high regard. Considering the shirts he has worn over the years its a nice thing for him so say.
Lets not forget that AVB had some measure of success in the league (record points total and all that) and did seem to have a major, major influence on Bale which the player himself has acknowledged. I'm not AVB's biggest fan by any means but I'm just playing devil's advocate. He also seems to have been as hamstrung by the club's transfer policy as most of our managers have been.
Lets not forget that AVB had some measure of success in the league (record points total and all that) and did seem to have a major, major influence on Bale which the player himself has acknowledged. I'm not AVB's biggest fan by any means but I'm just playing devil's advocate. He also seems to have been as hamstrung by the club's transfer policy as most of our managers have been.
You could argue that he effectively turned us into a one man team that we have still not recovered from. I have little respect now for AVB and I doubt your Dev Advocacy will turn me around but others may agree with you.
A similar thing happened to Pirlo at Milan in 2011: he was deemed a luxury player so they allowed his contract to run out - in doing so allowing Juventus to build the team around him and dominate Serie A for the following four seasons
One fundamental question does need to be asked, though: was AVB operating under the belief that Moutinho was going to be signed?
Looking at it from that perspective, specifically that VDV was sold to generate funds for the Moutinho transfer, then the story becomes very different - Levy sanctioned the sale of VDV to raise funds for Moutinho (and this is exactly what was going on, according to the Standard) but made a complete and utter bollocks of signing Moutinho, which meant when the transfer window closed VDV had joined Hamburg while Moutinho was still at Porto.
One fundamental question does need to be asked, though: was AVB operating under the belief that Moutinho was going to be signed?
Looking at it from that perspective, specifically that VDV was sold to generate funds for the Moutinho transfer, then the story becomes very different - Levy sanctioned the sale of VDV to raise funds for Moutinho (and this is exactly what was going on, according to the Standard) but made a complete and utter bollocks of signing Moutinho, which meant when the transfer window closed VDV had joined Hamburg while Moutinho was still at Porto.
A bit of class too.
A clever player who didn't need great pace or energy because he had skill and awareness, which meant he knew where he should be on the pitch - hence all those goals when he wasn't picked up ghosting into the penalty area.
He was the main reason why Redknapp's team were challenging the top two for four months or so of that season (2010/11?)
I think you have to remember that Bale was still an impressionable young man at the time, and would have been relatively easy for an amateur Svengali, like AVB, to manipulate. Apart from that his man management skills were pretty much non existent. He very quickly made far more enemies than afficionados. Experienced players could clearly see straight through him!
One of Levy's all time great ****-ups!
One of Levy's all time great ****-ups!
The thing with Rafa's wife was a big part of the problem that shouldn't be underestimated and honestly he was generally shocking for HSV for the last two seasons here.
Generally unfit, unable to play for longer than 60mins he went missing a lot, and despite his own belief to the contrary he was not effective as a part of the 'double six', as the 2 are referred to here. Yes his eye for a pass is sharp as ever, but he added nothing other than that and was either ran around with any trouble or else gave away free kicks.
I loved the two years he spent with us, hated it when he left for Hamburg, but hoped it was the best for him personally. IMO we got out whilst the going was good, never the same player again and all HSV fans hate to say it, but are thankful he's off the wage bill
Generally unfit, unable to play for longer than 60mins he went missing a lot, and despite his own belief to the contrary he was not effective as a part of the 'double six', as the 2 are referred to here. Yes his eye for a pass is sharp as ever, but he added nothing other than that and was either ran around with any trouble or else gave away free kicks.
I loved the two years he spent with us, hated it when he left for Hamburg, but hoped it was the best for him personally. IMO we got out whilst the going was good, never the same player again and all HSV fans hate to say it, but are thankful he's off the wage bill
I think HamburgSpur's point is also a crucial one. Even when he was here, VDV more often than not faded out of a game after 70-75 minutes or so.
Don't get me wrong as I personally found watching paint dry to be more interesting than Spurs under AVB, but before shovelling more manure onto that particular compost heap, I highly doubt MP would've kept VDV on either. What's been clear over the past few years is that Levy has firmly and decisively left behind the arm-round-the-shoulder, 'get out there and express yourself' approach of Harry (which I loved), with the far more modern, microscopically detailed and technical approach to the game advocated by managers like AVB and MP (which I am still hesitant about). In their approach, hard work, sticking to 'the plan', positional awareness, constant tracking back and tip-top stamina are absolutely vital, or the whole system collapses. One of the reasons Bale flourished so incredibly under AVB was precisely this - he is an absolute machine who can continue running full pelt well into stoppage time.
Look at all the late late goals we scored under both AVB and MP. There's no way VDV would've been on the pitch still at the point those goals went in.
I guess the closest comparison is The Special Git at Chelsea getting rid of a player as gifted as Mata for more or less the same reasons AVB would've gotten rid of VDV. The difference is that you need to replace the lack of class and sparkle with something equally as good, such as Hazard and Willian. NOT Clint Dempsey.
Don't get me wrong as I personally found watching paint dry to be more interesting than Spurs under AVB, but before shovelling more manure onto that particular compost heap, I highly doubt MP would've kept VDV on either. What's been clear over the past few years is that Levy has firmly and decisively left behind the arm-round-the-shoulder, 'get out there and express yourself' approach of Harry (which I loved), with the far more modern, microscopically detailed and technical approach to the game advocated by managers like AVB and MP (which I am still hesitant about). In their approach, hard work, sticking to 'the plan', positional awareness, constant tracking back and tip-top stamina are absolutely vital, or the whole system collapses. One of the reasons Bale flourished so incredibly under AVB was precisely this - he is an absolute machine who can continue running full pelt well into stoppage time.
Look at all the late late goals we scored under both AVB and MP. There's no way VDV would've been on the pitch still at the point those goals went in.
I guess the closest comparison is The Special Git at Chelsea getting rid of a player as gifted as Mata for more or less the same reasons AVB would've gotten rid of VDV. The difference is that you need to replace the lack of class and sparkle with something equally as good, such as Hazard and Willian. NOT Clint Dempsey.
You make a very good argument
we will have a better idea of the potential of our current manager after this window and during the coming season. I am old school and much prefer the footballing approach of Redknapp to the sometimes over technical approach of the modern manager but then the modern world seems to require a degree in bullshit whatever field you are. Most of English football's managerial greats have been essentially based on the simple approach with a good eye for a player and profound understanding of the professional game. I would argue that only Mourinho and Wenger have achieved similar success to our greats with the modern technical approach. Although having said that most managers don't get time to put up the family photos in their offices let alone build a legacy of success.
This will be a make or break season for MP I wish him luck and hope he can produce some exciting football.
There’s a comprehensive plan in place involving producing more talented young players at less cost than buying them, and getting them to be more successful earlier by taking advantage of both their ability and their willingness to work harder. Like all plans, especially novel ones, it may very well fail. But early signs look reasonably promising, and it probably deserves the benefit of the doubt for some time. Even if Pochettino for one reason or another demonstrates he’s not the man for the job, we will probably see, and probably should see, another youth-oriented coach. Onomah and Bentaleb stay, other clubs’ young players leave, because we may provide the brightest future for the best young players. That’s an important part of the plan as well.
Having a player like VdV come out and say nice things about the club is always nice. I'm sure other players will hear such things and it might help us a teeny-weeny bit when trying to attract players.
AVB was undoubtedly a douche for pissing off VdV but i'm with the 2 guys that mentioned about VdV fading. He never lasted a full game (effectively) and you could make the argument he was on the wane.
****ing class though.
AVB was undoubtedly a douche for pissing off VdV but i'm with the 2 guys that mentioned about VdV fading. He never lasted a full game (effectively) and you could make the argument he was on the wane.
****ing class though.
I agree. However 60 mins of VDV was way better than 90 mins of Townsend/Chadli/Lamela
