Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

That’ll show ‘em

 

Bans were handed to 380 players and coaches for attacking or threatening referees and match officials in English grassroots football last season:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61425471

I wonder why our officials are so ****?

 

Is it the officials - or the players and coaches?

 

Both?

The players and coaches treat the officials with incredible levels of disrespect at the top level.
Kids and (more embarrassingly) parents see this and replicate it at grass roots games.
They think it's what you're supposed to do.

 

My old man often got sent off in sunday league games
in the 70s for profane language towards the ref.

Do they still do that at "grass roots" level ??

At schoolboy rugby level in the 80s, a player got
sent off in a game for use of profane language +
not shutting his hole towards a ... team-mate.

The referee was a ... teacher from the same
school as the player sent off.

 

I hear it's rather erratic at that level, as you'd expect.
Some refs will send you off for just swearing in general, whereas others don't care.

 

In which case you have the inconsistency issue
already brewing at grass roots level.

I would rather that the latter still send you off,
and tell the player that they in particular are
not bothered by it but the edict from on high is
that it has to be punished.

 

You're going to get inconsistency at that level though, no matter what.
It's either kids playing and/or in some cases, kids as the officials.

The laws of the game are particularly vague on some things and intentionally so.
Ungentlemanly conduct is the obvious example.
If an official is open about it with the players at the start of the game, then it's not too bad.
I'd get sent off just for my language when I'm watching, though!

 

Kids : refs loudly tell them to shut their holes etc,

Adults (sunday league etc) : send them off (ungentlemanly conduct to peers/officials) .


"I'd get sent off just for my language when I'm watching, though!"

I'd get "Minority report"-ed well before KO (based on
current on-pitch style of play + who the opponent is) .

 

This could be easily sorted by rewriting the rules so that foul play was much more likely to lead to a bad outcome. Then there would be no reason to cheat and there would be fewer decisions for the refs to make. When players can pull shirts, pull people back and kick people with impunity and referees are criticised for enforcing the rules (eg the Chelsea penalty/Milan red card on Tuesday), the job of the referee is impossible.

 

I agree with your point, but I don't think it's why we're getting this much abuse of the officials.
Rugby-style respect needs to be introduced across the board.
When people see the players in the Prem treating them correctly, then it'll carry down.

The criticism for the Milan v Chelsea ref on that decision was ridiculous, though.
Timori reached over Mount's shoulder and pulled him back when he was in the box.
It's a textbook penalty and red card. Mount even stayed on his feet to help him out.
The pundits were disagreeing with the rule and blaming the enforcement of it.
They were wrong on both counts. It was a red and it should be, too.

 

Agreed, but one reason Rugby refs have more effect is because the laws of both League and Union are a real incentive not to offend. Being able to play the advantage for a minute and then penalise the foul if none accrues is a case in point. Makes a deliberate foul much less effective. Similarly penalty tries and advancing the ball for encroachment.

 

1. Advancing the ball for not retreating the minimum
10 yards fast enough, or not remaining still for a
quick free kick etc.

2. Yellow cards for persistent infringement by a team
doing the above (if the team does it N times then
player N+1 gets the yellow etc) .

3. Yellow cards for profane/unsporting language
towards officials + other officials.

4. For "penalty tries" , that would be deliberate
handball for a shot definitely going in
goal awarded - no subsequent penalty kick) .

IMHO 1/2/3 would all be high ROI to get things going.

On these ones I would also be open to NFL style
stadium mic links to officials ( "yellow card :
persistent failure by team to withdraw 10 yards" etc) .

 

Me and my 2 sons all referee youth and adult Sunday league football. The only issue that we have had was a female parent at an under 12 game marching up at HT and telling my youngest (he was 16 at the time) that he had no control over the game and it was his fault that her son was sent off for telling him to **** Off and she was going to report him to the league (which she did) She apparently was a teacher and knew how to control 12 year olds. Eds report was submitted to local FA both coaches backed him up and that was that.

In terms of bad language on a Sunday I don't send people off swearing at each other, but if they swear at me I give 1 warning, call both captains together and tell them that any further bad language aimed at me will see the offending player sent off. I have sent about 5 players for this in the last 4/5 years. Far more get sent off fighting and for endangering an opponent.

 

I think a lot more should be done around ensuring respect for referees. Allowing only captains (or vice captains if the captain is a GK) to speak to the ref, and making them more responsible for players behaviour as TCM describes would be an interesting experiment IMO. Though (time to bang my favourite drum again) I do firmly believe that miking up the refs, including VAR conversations, and broadcasting the feed live, like in rugby, would not only see player abuse of officials decrease immediately but also be highly illuminating for everyone watching the game.

Obviously that doesn’t help grassroots. I have a cousin who was a referee in the Manchester area for a while and got to a decent level even when he was young. He took an awful lot of **** and eventually stopped for other reasons. He’s pretty thick skinned and is also about 6ft 6 and built like a brick ****house so I’m not sure he ever felt threatened, but it was definitely a difficult role for him as a young man.

 

Sad to hear of the death of Robbie Coltrane. Top class actor. Was never destined for a very long life, but sad all the same. Remember him from Tutti Frutti, Comic Strip and of course Cracker - enjoyed him in all

 

Also a major part of the Harry Potter movies. Apparently J K Rowling was insistent that he should play Haggred...and he was brilliant in the role.

 

72 is a decent run for a large bloke who was a heavy drinker, though.
Talented and versatile. Lots of comedic roles, but was good in straight ones, too.

 

So sad that we're going to get a Harry Potter marathon on ITV4 from this, but nobody is going to screen Nuns on the Run