Having said that, Zdenek Ondrasek of Tromso looks decent from this video - and plays a Holt role. Tromso play in Norway, and this guy is Czech - but again the Norwegian league isn't exactly the Premiership. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86J_Kc5bV94 this video shows some decent target man stuff.
Very good thread this and I've enjoyed Carrabuh being thoughtful and analytical rather than just critical. IMO, people were pleased well enough when the 10 match run was going on, but a tough run of four games has brought a change. Good passing requires both ability and confidence, and the latter has ebbed a bit of late. Against Newcastle, both Wes and Tettey had off days and their passing suffered. IMO, now is not the time for a major revamp of the team. City need 3 wins and 5 draws from 16 games to reach 40 points. The stronger defence and double DM formation CH has brought in makes that probable, and I assume Carrabuh was only looking at the passing issue when he left the defenders out of the 'likes'. I think the passing issue can wait until summer, as City need a quality striker who can hit the ground running to see us through this year. We all knew this was going to be a tough year, but City have done far better than most were predicting at the start. The players CH has brought in have all done well (though we need to see more of Butterfield and Kane). The one position that hasn't been strengthened is striker (except for Kane on loan). Get a quality striker in, give Benno and Fox more playing time and City should be through to 40+ points and ready to move on another stage next year.
I think we're all aare of the shortcomings of the team and squad and we all have ideas on what and where we'd like to strengthen and in a lot of cases who we'd like to see in to fill the gaps in quality/skill/fit. I often think we are now "too predictable" - I can almost see what we are going to do next and read the play so if I can as a strict amateur so can a professional, experienced player/coach/manager. That was all too apparent on Saturday when our play was disjointed/predictable/slow. It's not just changes in personnel (in some areas - I think the back four is now pretty good and in Johnson and/or Tettey we have a good DM who can break up play and give the defensive "lads a hand") that is needed, it's the ability to change tactics amd mix it up that's lacking. Last year we didn't have a clue half the time as to what the first team line-up was going to be each Saturday (made RBF's prediction league more of a challenge) so if we didn't, then how the hell could the opposition plan for playing us as they wouldn't know what kind of line-up or ormation they would be playing against. This year we have a more settled, predictable first-team, a more redictable style and therefore teams can plan to nullify our strengths as the Nukes did so well on Saturday - they came with a plan "not to lose" and stuck to that plan and unfortunately we played into that plan and couldn't find a way round it. To Hughton's credit, the settled line-up and "predictability" has made us harder to beat but it has also meant that games like Saturday may be a regular feature in the season(s) to come. We have to live within our means as a club - for me, I'd like to see a YaYa Toure kind of player - a midfielder who can be both DM and creator - but players like him are thin on the ground and would cost a fortune - Bridcutt seems a good option at an affordable price in this respect. We go on about signing a new striker - we should do (not sure who - I'd still like to see CMS at Carrow Road) but in truth, even if we signed Van Persie, Aguero and Suarez, they'd struggle to score if we don't get the ball to them in positions where they could threaten. Staying in the Prem is the go to place for us and Hughton's selections and tactics are designed to get us there for this season - planning for next season and beyond will require a fundamental shift in thinking and spending which I am sure the Board will have a plan for.
I really don't see the need to change the manager's philosophy on how he not us wants to play the game. We all know Carrabuh's penchant for the interminable passers of Europe. And I imagine he is not alone. And of course we want players who can pass to each other. However, if we are talking philosophies on how best to play the game then surely Manure are the benchmark in the Prem. They have excellent players, some world class, and are predominantly British, with a British manager. They can play a containing passing game, a counter attacing style or hit long passes left, right and up the middle. But the current market value of their squad is £300M. Our club has had to adapt to 6 managers since our last foray into the Prem and have decided on CH as the latest to be handed the reins but not the cheque book. He has his philosophy and his budget and I don't see how he can do much more than he is. I don't for one moment think he wants the players to play as they did Saturday and I believe he had harsh words with the team in general and will be talking to individuals on the training ground. And of course there are key individual players in our squad who are vital to us. But we can't afford too many guys as back up or reserves so Holt and Hoolahan are one offs. And the sticking plasters will have to come out if we have injuries or suspensions. And we have had injuries recently which seem to coincide wih our poor form and performance. But I enjoy the way we attempt to play. I wouldn't want a season ticket at Camp Nou if you paid me. And I forgive them if they don't always get it right. And I also know that we will always have to be looking over our shoulder because of what and who we are.
Let's get some perspective - we are doing pretty well. CH found a system which worked with the personnel we have available and we had an excellent run. Now we've had a blip (albeit including matches against the champions of England and Europe) and had one very poor performance where several key players all had an off day at the same time. Yes we were poor but at least we came away with a point. We have to accept that with the squad we have we will have off days. Our key players will get tired and even our best players will not perform to 100% of their ability week in week out. If they did they would be playing in Manchester, not Norwich. We are going to have off days just hopefully not too many like Saturday. If we play two DM's then we are trading defensive stability for creativity. If we had a defence capable of surviving at this level with only one DM then we could have another more creative player in the midfield or play with two strikers but the early matches this season prior to CH adopting this system suggests that we need two DM's to keep the goals against column in check. I would love to see us play total football and have a squad capable of challenging the top clubs but this is unlikely to happen given our fan base and income stream. If we can achieve stability in the PL then funds will become available for better players and to develop the ground and the club can and will move on but for the time being I feel that we have to remember that it was not long ago we were playing in League 1
I don't really think this thread is being too over critical of Hughton. Baring in mind most of Hughton's signings were more defensive players I think it suggests he is building from the back and he will probably look at how we can get more goals now. I also don't really think anyone is worrying about the game on Saturday too much. Most sensible Norwich fans probably realise that we've just had a pretty difficult set of fixtures. I see this more thread to be where we strengthen next, change our style to fit in a different kind of players. Which I agree with, in a sense, we are a one dimensional team at the moment but we are solid at the back which is probably the most important thing for us to stay up. I actually look at out Saturdays game in a positive light, we played poor and still managed a point against a decent team. I am happy with that, I don't think many relegation teams get points from poor performances. I think Hughton's got the making of being one of our best managers if he is here long enough and I think most Norwich fans recognise that. But, I don't think we should rest on out laurels, we should look to improve the team every transfer window. Sometimes the players are available or are over priced which I would not encourage the club to pursue but we should definitely have a look. Where to strengthen? Firstly I would probably look at bringing in another winger on the left probably similar to Snodgrass in having the skill in his locker with a little bit more pace. I would also like a defensive midfielder with a passing range, I would love Biglia, but with other teams sniffing could be difficult. Bridcutt would be pretty good too but probably if there was no chance of Biglia this month or in the summer. Finally a striker, I like Nicklas Helenius he has skill, but mainly has a good touch and could be similar to Holt, although he is slightly more gangly and taller than pure brute. Are we going to tick all them off in January, not a chance. But Hughton in my eyes has already sorted out first priority, it's about pushing on and making us a more creative team. The two criticisms I have off Hughton is his late substitions, which I don't understand. And also the lack of David Fox, he is that additional bit of quality in midfield we so often need. Maybe Andrew Surman as well, although I know he is injured but I think he has intelligence and has good movement probably something Pilkington doesn't have at times. I don't disagree with you Carrabuh, but I think it takes patience to get these players, because we don't really have the money at the moment.
This is why i said ages ago that we should gamble money on Biglia. He is a quality DM who can also pick a pass. Even the lad from Celtic who we were linked with would do (slightly cheaper £5m rather than £8.5m). A player like this in with either Johnson or Tettey would add so much more to our side. Though I agree, with our style of play atm, we do need a big, powerful striker who can hold the ball up and bring other players into the game like Holt and, if possible, has a bit of pace about him as well.
There must be another Christian Benteke out there somewhere? And a pacy left sided winger - who can take on the full back on the outside and cross with his left foot as well
..maybe there is, but how many teams from the top leagues are searching for him? we would have to be very astute to snap him up before the others found out about him.
Apparently he's coaching the academy and we know he's partial to a few Desperados so my guess is no. Although he still looked quality against Celtic!
Why do we need a pacey left sided winger? this smacks of what I've been saying. Why is the physical trait put first? Why was the description not we need someone who can run with the ball at his feet. A pacey winger can mean anything, there are tonnes of them, nearly all of them are quick. Jimi Kebe, he seems quick, appalling ball control and touch though. In this country its the physical attributes which are expensive, the neat and tidy possession (who are not extravagent) players don't really exist in the Premier League, to my mind theres really only Fulham, Swansea, Wigan who go for them. I feel confident we could compete with them financially Everton, Villa, Reading, Southampton, QPR, West Brom et al, they just have no interest in these types of players.
I think, in context, the comment was about a nice signing for this window, and beating the man to deliver left footed crosses from the left wing either requires pace, which is comparatively cheap, or great skill at taking a player on, which is less so. Sure, I'd like a player who's touch and control dazzles us all and they can turn defenders inside out at walking pace, but that's not cheap. The current lack of competition for Pilks is a concern in our current formation. For the more creative midfield play you seem to favour, would you keep this formation, or would you change that? At the moment, our wingers are rarely asked to come inside and link up creatively, they're there to get balls into the box from out wide. This is half the reason Surman isn't playing. The LW being asked for is for our current formation and style, rather than a signing looking more long term to a different style of play.
The reason is that we do not have the money (or it seems the inclination or need) to change our style. Most important is making sure we can win games, then comes maing it more attractive. For the record, not all of us enjoy watching the passing game.
I think Snodgrass beats players, but not through pace, neither Bennett or Pilkington can do it and they do have pace (certainly more). Jackson can't beat a player but is quick, yet Holt who's slow can, yes he uses his strength but he keeps the ball under control when he rolls the defenders. When I say beat a player, I mean ball at feet. Besides you can beat a defender through short sharp passing which is even better. Surman can't really beat a player because although he's technically good, he's not good enough for being incredibly slow. He beats defenders however through very good off the ball movement and positioning to receive the ball, or release someone with the pass. Surman (for me) is by some distance technically the best player we have at the club(he should have been on my favoured list earlier). That ball is glued to his feet when he runs (probably helped by his lack of pace admittedly). Surman doesn't play because he's not physical enough, because Hughtons style has a very strong emphasis on physical strength and rigid structure playing to percentages, more crosses, more goals, its really not that different to Graham Taylor, Howard Wilkinson, Kenny Dalgish et al which I'd think most of you would turn your noses up at. If you pick players like Surman, Fox, Hoolahan then the whole team has to play that way. Whether Hughton intends to develop the philosophy I don't know, depends on his results I guess, I doubt he'll change if we stay up, he'll go for more of the same.
I think you're doing a bit of an injustice to Pilkington. He can beat a man (admittedly sometimes defenders make him look stupid when he tries too hard), but when he's playing well, he can give a fullback an absolute nightmare. I don't disagree with your earlier assessment of our midfield, but I also think Howson is a bit more subtle than just a forward thinking midfielder. When playing well he can pick the finest pass. The other thing to bear in mind is that teams like Swansea do have some one-dimensional players who only look forward - I'm thinking of Routledge, etc. These players can be and are very effective in all sorts of different teams. I think it's unwise to eliminate that mentality from a squad. I accept that a better technical level of player would be great. I think that patience is needed on this front, though, simply because funds will be freed up next summer.
