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Benefit Cap

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Ciaran, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    100%. Before 2006 fraud was identified under a whole load of other offences, including theft, forgery and **** like that. A gap of fully 19 years after the introduction of a government sponsored agency to address fraud was a fraud Act passed. Yes they had teeth before then but it shows how little a **** about corporate malfeasance compared to a window cleaner with a limp claiming benefit.
     
    #141
  2. VenomPD

    VenomPD Merrick jr

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    Agreed, it's more attitudes towards these issues which bother me rather than the issues themselves.

    Fraudulence is rife in any large society, people are born exploiters.
     
    #142
  3. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    I'm sure you could afford one Easyjet plane ticket a month with the money you'd save in not buying cannabis.
     
    #143
  4. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

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    You can't 'save' housing benefits, they pay your rent.

    So you're looking at saving everything you can from JSA.

    Seeing as it's £70 a week, + you still have to pay transport/bills/food before you go, it'll take 6 months to save up enough. Flights + survival money over there + rent + transport costs...

    So if you randomly lose your job you're ****ed.
     
    #144
  5. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    Left Economics Advisory Panel
    LEAP - the Left Economics Advisory Panel
    Thursday, 4 April 2013
    The Myths of the Benefit Cap



    “People on benefits can be getting as much as a higher-rate taxpayer” – Iain Duncan Smith

    “The Benefit Cap has a very simple principle at its heart: no family that’s out of work should receive more in total benefits than the average family gets in work” – George Osborne

    “We have been encouraging working-age people to have children and not work” – David Cameron

    Since 1 April, the benefit cap applies in four London boroughs: Bromley, Croydon, Enfield and Haringey, and will be applied nationally from 15 July. It caps the total benefits a household can receive at £26,000 (roughly equivalent to the median full-time wage).

    Instinctively many people – 62% according to an IPSOS-MORIpoll – favour such a limit on the receipt of welfare benefits.

    There are many problems with this benefit cap:

    1. It takes no account of need.
    Families are capped at £26,000 regardless of whether there are three, five or fifteen people living in the household. While many people seemingly disapprove of people having large families that are supported (often only temporarily) by social security, it is doubtful that equates to wanting the children of those families to suffer as a result.

    As Ipsos-MORI pollster Ben Page says*


    2. It does not compare like-for-like income
    Many of those in-work households earning £26,000 or less also receive child benefit, child tax credits, working tax credit and housing benefit (93% of new housing benefit claims in the last two years are from households in which at least one person works). And so the out-of-work household is not receiving anything that a low income in-work household cannot also claim in the case of child benefit, child tax credit and housing benefit.

    If you add together total income – from benefits and work – it is, I would suggest, almost (if not actually) impossible for individuals in out-of-work households to be better off per capita than those in in-work households.

    3. It protects landlords’ subsidy while cutting poor people’s living standards
    Households only breach the benefit cap due to the cost of housing benefit. Housing benefit is paid from the state to landlords, the household sees none of the money at any point, and has no control over the rent charged. It is a state subsidy for private landlords (edit 05/04/13: today the Daily Telegraph describes housing benefit as "allowing private landlords to game the government for excessively high rents. This in turn has spawned a new, and largely parasitic, industry in buy-to-let.")*

    If benefits are capped, there are three obvious scenarios: a) the private landlord will benevolently drop the rent (this won’t happen as there is a housing shortage and the landlord could find tenants who will pay full rate); b) the family is forced out of their home and into more overcrowded accommodation or to move out of their local area (with bad consequences for the children’s education and the family’s local support networks); or c) their already low benefits are cut and their living standards drop.

    Over five million people currently claim housing benefit. In the last two years 93% of new claimants have been from household in which at least one person is working. Housing costs in the UK are so expensive that the state is subsidising even working households to pay private landlords inflated rents.

    We should be capping rents not benefits as this ‘Who benefits?’ flyer shows.

    4. No one is arguing that any single benefit is too generous
    The welfare system in the UK is entirely means-tested. A tiny amount of fraud aside, people get what receive in social security based on their needs.

    Of the benefits included in the benefits cap:

    Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) is worth just 14% of average full-time earnings; 11% if you’re under-25. It is worth only 31% of working full-time on the minimum wage
    Child benefit is £20.30 per week for your first child and £13.40 for each subsequent child – if anyone thinks that covers the cost of a child and incentivises
    Child tax credits are pretty difficult to calculate (depends massively on personal circumstances) but are higher if you have childcare costs for which you can only generally claim if you are working
    Income Support – which you only get if you are a carer or a lone parent with a child under 5 (i.e. have caring responsibilities). Income support is paid at the same rate as JSA (see above).
    Carer’s Allowance – which is £58.45 a week to look after someone with substantial caring needs for at least 35 hours per week. So this is someone doing the equivalent of a full-time job for at best £1.67 per hour.
    Despite many politicians arguing in favour of a benefits cap, I have not heard a single politician argue that any of these benefits are too generous. Given all of these benefits are need-based and not overly generous then the argument that some people are getting too much is nonsense.
     
    #145
  6. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member
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    That's a decent read MTS but good luck with defending anything from a panel with Left in their title on here <ok>
     
    #146
  7. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Come on Gambol, throw your hat in the ring <ok>
     
    #147
  8. ManDingo 20"/20"

    ManDingo 20"/20" MDMA Guru

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    The more ****e you type the more I'm convinced you hate the fact I'm jobless with money.

    You a hater.

    That's why you aint gonna stack no paper n get no bitches.
     
    #148
  9. Gambol

    Gambol George Clooney's wee brother

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    Mick = Norman Tebbit
     
    #149
  10. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    I'm afraid any merit that release may have had has been destroyed by that ludicrous assertion, however it was meant to have read.
     
    #150

  11. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Get on yer bike.
     
    #151
  12. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs
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    I didn't know you were jobless, don't care how much money you have and I've only really addressed points you have made towards me.
     
    #152
  13. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    I'd considered leaving it out...but then someone might have thought I wrote it, had a stroke, recovered but were unable to work and ended up on benefits...
     
    #153
  14. ManDingo 20"/20"

    ManDingo 20"/20" MDMA Guru

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    Really?

    Well whats so ****ing important about my smoking that you keep needing to bring it up then.
     
    #154
  15. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    ?
     
    #155
  16. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    Time to hand over the managment of benefits to insurance providers.
     
    #156
  17. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    Time for a tax on doughnuts and Happy Meals. Fat ****s are costing the NHS billions.
     
    #157
  18. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    Agree ...
     
    #158
  19. Mind The Duck

    Mind The Duck Well-Known Member

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    Not a full recovery....went a bit spazy afterwards
     
    #159
  20. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member
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    Come on - own up. Who is responsible for the "let them eat Steak bake" tag? That's inspired <laugh> <laugh>
     
    #160

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