After the abuse we gave Colin at Bramall Lane I did worry he might not have our best interests at heart. But he is a proud man and he will want one last crack at the big time. Plus we have nothing to lose really, I don't care if we go down as it will help us get rid of Ken Bates as people will realise he is a failure & stop lining his pockets. Remember, Howard Wilkinson was well thought of at Wednesday, but he became a legend at Leeds, Colin must want this status.
You've miscalculated. What you've listed suggests a 29 man squad - 7 players over bates ideal number. He also includes youth players, our current "massive" squad of 31 players is only 31 if you include Cairns, Turner x 2, Thompson and Taylor.
It's like banging my head against a wall. It's not that we don't trust Colin, it's that we don't think he's going to be given the means to actually make any sort of impact. Trust Colin all you want, doesn't mean he can get blood from a stone. You're completely missing the problem, the problem people are all constantly talking about and all you can say is "well we can't judge until we see who he brings in blah blah blah Colin knows what he's doing he'll get the right players he can attract better players blah blah blah" completely missing the massive "WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE" sign that bates hung on the side of Elland Road, to make sure there's no confusion. We could have Alex Ferguson or José Mourinho, with bates in charge no players want to touch us with a barge pole and those who do get scared off at the first suggestion that they get paid what they deserve and not some pittance that bates has felt generous enough to let them have.
Sorry Marko, once again I disagree with you, and to be honest, I think you're in danger of going through a wee "here's Johnny!!" phase. Ease up, man! Take a break. As I said in an earlier post today, I'm sure Warnock has already attracted his main targets to ER - 'unofficially' -and is just waiting for the formalities to be concluded. He's adopted a high risk strategy, but you don't do that without doing your homework forst - and he's on record as saying he's been 'talking to a lot of people' about recruitment. He's a wily old fox, and if anyone can do it - he can!.
whitejock, he's got his targets lined up and is just waiting for the formalities to be concluded - the formalities is where we always stumble, because of the complete incompetence shown time and time again from the board of directors in "not bowing down to ridiculous wage demands", or even in just playing stupid negotiation games in the hopes of paying as little as possible, instead of showing a bit of ambition in "we've identified you as a player we want, we'll do whatever it takes to get you to sign, as long as we don't break the bank". Strategy should be, identify targets, determine where those targets fit in to the manager's plans, split the targets off into categories based on those plans and set out a wage structure with limits based on target priorities - a wage structure whereby "we can offer a maximum of £x a week for a player in Y category". Then go out there, talk to the player and say "we want you at our club, we'll do everything we can afford to accommodate you." Like I said, banging head against a wall, blood from a stone, massive sign on Elland Road that says "WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE".
I feel like I'm running round in circles here. He can talk to as many people as he wants, he can make as much noise as he wants, he can identify every player on the planet as a transfer target, it doesn't mean any of them actually want to sign on the dotted line after having to suffer shaun harvey and ken bates. It all just reminds me of "irons in the fire" from last season. The noises Grayson was making was like he was talking to every ****ing player in the country. What happened? Sweet **** ALL. Where on earth do you get this blind optimism from? Doesn't matter who Warnock is, getting the player on board with the manager isn't the hurdle to overcome.
How many signings does he have to complete to make you happy? When does the moaning stop? You haven't given him a chance to build his team yet! He KNOWS what he's walked into. He KNOWS what he has to do. He KNOWS the parameters he's working within. He's not daft you know. Give him a chance.
...no, he's got himself into a ****ty situation and it's showing quite clearly in his change in attitude. So far, he's signed no one. All we've heard is noises saying "we're talking to players and we're very close to signing a couple". He's gone from saying "complete overhaul" to "we only need 2-3 players to compete". He's gone from "I want to keep Clayton" to "he was asking too much". All his changes in stance have moved into sync with what bates has said. He's even been caught saying "agents and players are on holiday it's a difficult time blah blah" after only a week earlier saying he wants to get all his work done early. He's starting to parrot what bates is saying. His walk out clause has expired so bates can go about his usual business of undermining the manager at every opportunity. What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter how good a manager Warnock is, it doesn't matter who he goes after and who he identifies, who he talks to, how many "irons in the fire" we've got, blah blah blah whatever noises he makes, he is not the last person to sign off on the signing. The problem in the past has never been the manager's ability to identify targets and get them talking. It always fell through at the last minute - what's the last thing to happen? Agreeing contract terms. Something the manager has nothing to do with. I'm not criticising Warnock for ****s sake. I'm sick of having this stupid ****ing argument. My pessimism is well founded on the basis that no matter who our manager is they are never going to get their primary targets because it's not the manager that's the problem in signing players. It hasn't been for a long time. The only common factor is the incompetent buffoons at the top who consistently fluff the contracts through bone-idleness or just being stubborn. It's not that I'm not giving Warnock a chance, it's that I don't have the opportunity to give him a chance because he doesn't have one in the first place. As for bates? The one who constantly stands in the way of our success? He's had enough chances. We've no chance until he goes. Please forgive me oh great one for having had enough of the bollocks. How can you still place all your hopes on the managers ability when it's consistently been proven that the manager is not the factor holding us back?
You didn't answer the question. How many completed to make you shut up? Don't like to rain on your parade, but it looks like Pearce will be signing today, or early next week, depending on who you listen to. Will that make you pause for breath? ..... and it looks like we'll be spending around £500k up front too!
Oh you mean the Pearce that was supposed to sign on Monday? Then on Tuesday then on Wednesday? It would take 5 signings before August 1st for me to shut up and feel positive. And they'd all have to be good. Considering our "massive" squad has been cut down and now only has space for 1 or 2 more players, along with Colin saying he only needs 2 more players to make the team competitive, leaves me expecting nothing. If I don't expect us to do well, I won't be disappointed. And hopefully the idiots will finally wake up and smell the ****. How does Colin stating we only need 2 players to be competitive after saying we need a complete overhaul not seriously worry you? We've 86ed the deadwood and replaced it all with... unproven youth players! I think it's a good strategy to mix in one or two youth players in the first team each season - give them a good run out and player them often and get them developing. But now... 40% of our squad is youth players. 40%. Because they are cheap. And we can cut costs even more by not paying players like Clayton (who are actually worth it) the money they earn. I've no faith because there's no faith to be had. Where on earth does this stupid view come from? That £500k will be paid for somehow. I'd imagine it was a case of "Keep Clayton or sign Pearce". Who hasn't actually signed yet. Based on our track record of having deals fall through at the last minute, you can't possibly be telling me you're dumb enough to say it's already done and dusted? Coming from a club like Portsmouth where their players are known to be on extortionate wages after their downfall and refusal to cut back, I'd imagine a lot of their players - in a squad arguably too good to go down - will have high wage demands. It's only a matter of time until "we had a couple of players about to sign then the deal fell through at the last minute". We know all this from experience. There's no evidence there to suggest what you're saying will happen.
I've not heard him mention anything about 2 players. Got a link for it? I did post this earlier today, which is in direct contradiction to the 2 player strategy ....
That gives me more confidence, at least he hasn't given in to bates stupid, unrealistic squad size ideology. Either way, doesn't change the fact that a month ago he wanted to keep Clayton, Clayton was in his plans as one of our better players and an up and coming player who can only improve - then the contract negotiations started, couple of days later and we're at "he wanted too much so we've transfer listed him" - all with a tone of disappointment and deflation in Warnock's voice.
Too right he was disappointed! Warnock met with Clayton's moneygrabbers twice, and clearly they didn't drop their demands. As far as I'm aware, that's as far as it got. No-one else from the club was involved. The valuation was Warnock's alone. Clayton wanted his salary trebled, Warnock didn't think he was worth it. Clayton now has a choice to make. It's up to him. I think it's an excellent message to send out. As for White thinking he's worth £15k, don't get me started .....
I find it much easier to believe that these wage demands being thrown about are a load of bollocks. We can afford them anyway if we show any kind of ambition, but they are just bollocks to make the players sound bad and make the club look good. The fact these values get thrown around while taking sly digs at players (no other club in the WORLD does this) without any proof of such happening - it's just a stupid game to get people on board with shifting the blame to the player when they leave. Gradel, Johnson, Howson, Beckford, all wanted "way too much" or whatever - Gradel, our player of the year last season and one we've sorely missed - where were the board then? Where were they bringing out the "best we can afford" contract to make sure he stayed? It's only happened now because it's last chance saloon for them, and because Snodgrass is the only player we've got left with any significant value. He won't sign either, I hope Norwich City or Southampton enjoy him.
You don't think - You might be right, I hope you're wrong and I hope Warnock does receive funds but until things start to move your opinion doesn't count as a fact does it? - WAIT and see... anyway, what alternative do you have, you can't change it. Although, in England, the transfer window formally opens on 1 July, transfers between clubs in the same association can take place as soon as the last competitive fixtures for the season have been played. However, many transfers will not be completed until 1 July because many players' contracts expire on 30 June. See above, I am assuming there has been permission granted due to the financial woes at Portsmouth but officially the Championship season does not conclude until after the play off final. Massive squad of poor quality under performing rubbish, I would rather send the youth team out than rely on Bruce, Connolly, O'Brien, Nunez, Paynter and Forssell again.
I'm tired of "wait and see". Having a new manager doesn't suddenly mean we've got money to spend, or rather that he'll be allowed money to spend. This is a case of you haven't learnt from the last time you got your hopes up.
Brilliant, Bates has already succeeded in turning people against Clayton . Clayton was asking for £9k/w, £2k less than Becchio and Snoddy are currently on and exactly the same wage as Danny Pugh, why is this too expensive for one of our key players who can only improve? Why isn't Pugh on the transfer list instead so Clayton can pick up his wage? Answer: Because Bates has clearly told Warnock he has to sell before we can buy. Expect us to "reluctantly" accept an offer for Ross McCormack before the end of the transfer window.
And I'd imagine we're already in talks regarding Snodgrass, McCormack and Clayton regarding selling them.
I am sure if Warnock valued Clayton as much he would give him the contract he desires. To me Warnock is clearly saying to Clayton come back, fight for your place, make it your own and you will get the contract you desire. Good on Warnock this time, lets make Clayton earn it, he has played probably 15 decent games for us so why should he get a speculative figure Warnock doesn't believe in, like I said it is gamesmanship
