Off Topic Away from football....

Just to carry on the plumbing/heating/old boiler theme (and no the last one isn't a reference to Masky), has anyone got/considering an air source heat pump?

I think for my property I'll be looking at at least £5k to buy/install one but just wondered if (eco reasons aside) it'd be worth it from an efficiency point of view.

We have a really old (circa 20 year old) Potterton Suprima boiler and H/W cylinder so would be making a massive upgrade no matter what turn to next....

 

By installing a hot air source heatpump on here, we could save a bloody fortune..........

 

Seriously though Brizzo, if you leave aside the "green" arguments, recovering the initial outlay cost throws up the same issues as solar panels.

On average, it takes about seven years to recover the purchase and installation costs of solar panels through reselling your excess generated electricity back to the grid - so you need to be sure you live that long . If you really want to do your bit for the ecology reasons then it's a much bigger investment than a new gas boiler - ask Bluey.

BTW, your Suprima was a great little boiler but still a comparitive youngster to my Netaheat Electronic of circa 1987. Shouldn't say it too loud on sod's law principles, but mine is still going strong - there, I've said it now.....

 

New boiler going very well. Thanks for asking Sparks.

 

And the time to recover the investment on a new gas boiler is.........never.
I'm no expert but I understand the issue with heat exchangers is that you have a large volume of low grade heat and so your heating system needs to fit that sort of source. That is usually underfloor heating downstairs and radiators upstairs. And you'll need electricity to run it........it then becomes a trade off between lower energy usage but using a higher cost source of that energy.

 

Spot on about never recovering the cost of a gas boiler but it should be good for a good 20 years lifespan. PV solar panels don't last forever either - probably the same as a gas boiler and their performance degrades in efficiency by about 1% per year and are not immune to complete failure. The cost of minor repairs to a boiler in it's lifetime is far cheaper than PV panel replacement.

Also heatpumps are being pushed for environmental reasons rather than efficiency and effectiveness. They can be bloody noisy and operate at much lower temperatures than normal gas fired boiler systems and work on the differential inside/outside ambient temperatures. When you need it most to heat your home in the winter it's at it's lowest efficiency because the external air from which it extracts heat is at it's lowest.

If used for home heating as well as domestic hot water, you'd probably need to change all existing radiators to "oversize" them to provide anywhere near the same heating output. Your typical gas boiler chucks the water around your rads at something like 70/75 degrees whereas you'll be lucky if a heatpump will deliver much more than 50 degrees in the winter. The "oversized" rads would be needed to produce the same heat output. Heatpumps also don't last forever either.

All in all, unless you are a Greta fan, the investment is disproportionate to the benefits although I think there are governament grants to be had if you're keen on it - but beware, the overall initial costs can be eye watering.

 

A lot of these systems work like fridges / freezers / air con units in reverse. Boyle's law in action.
Several 'neighbours' at our small holding have ground source systems. Basically miles of mirco-bore pipes under 1/4 to half an acre with a compression pump. Just like the fins on the back of your fridge get hot and dissipate the heat extracted from inside the fridge, the ground source system cools the ground and concentrates the heat inside. A small decrease on the outside creates a big increase on the inside.
As for temperatures, often these systems are used as boosters rather than replacements.
Thinking about hot water, if the ground source can raise mains water from 10 degrees to 40 degrees, your boiler only has to raise the temperature from 40 degrees to the temperature you want out of the tap.
None of these systems are 100% efficient either, so you need power to drive the pumps. Not sure of the ratios these days, but seem to remember it being around 10 to one. So you get 10 times as much heat out as the energy you put in.
Talking to the neighbours, their bills are a lot lower than if they were just using gas or electricity but it doesn't provide all their needs. They struggle to get the performance out of the systems that manufacturers claim.

For one of the 'neighbours', they use the ground source heating to heat their indoor swimming pool.
Being an inverse snob, I do my best to lower the tone somewhat.

It is interesting to see these things come to life. I seem to remember discussions around wave energy, tidal power, ground source and myriad others being mooted when I was doing my HND about 40 years ago. Slow progress.

 

The reluctance to embrace the huge natural resource of energy that tidal power would produce is a disgrace.

Initial startup cost has been put forward as the main reason but they can spend £120Bn on a bloody train line between London and Manchester.

 

@BrizzleBluebird Brizzo - on a side issue, if you get any problems with that Suprima boiler of yours, don't call a local plumber out unless you know him because invariably they'll tell you it's shot and will try to get you to replace it.

I know a guy who specialises in Pottertons (amongst others) and he can fix anything believe me. He actually lives in the Marlborough area and he'll come out to you in Bristol no problem. You'll have to pay his travelling time down the M4 but he carries all the parts and it doesn't matter how old the boiler is, he'll fix it.

 

Good to know, Cheers Sparkey..... Noted.

 

Second day of journey back. Just passing J19 on M6. I'm the one mooning out of a campervan.
Sorry, no boiler anecdotes.

 

Was due to take mam home yesterday, but the elements intervened. Flooding in Pontypridd and on the road between ponty and Porth made us cancel.



Another elemental day today in cheshire.

Holed up in the tackroom while mrs remote cleans out the chickens.

 

What about old boilers?

 

Oh no. If you'd said Id have stood you a coffee.
We're only a couple miles out of your way.

 

Very kind. Unfortunately, I'm governed by the timetable of others. Will try next time though.

 

Shame.
If you'd got off at 19 and got on the A50 for a few miles you'd have been at the small holding. A few more miles down the A50 and back on the M6 at J18. The 50 runs parallel to the M6 for quite a way. Not as far as the A38 runs parallel to the M5 though.
Not long crossed the M6 between 19 and 18 on the way home.

 

A definite for the next run which I envisage happening end of Feb or early March

 

Well, I've heard of a Baxi Bermuda but never a Backside Big Mooner....

 

I remember them too. Funnily enough we went past Bamber Bridge, Preston (where they were made) earlier today. Turns out I did have a boiler anecdote after all

 

Out for a bit of winter trouting with my 90 year old mate this afternoon. Just a couple hours amongst the snow flurries. Ice forming in the rod rings when we started.
At one point I'm sure I heard the 90 year old muttering 'I am enjoying myself, I am enjoying myself'.
I managed a brace which found their way to a neighbouring farmer. Never know when I may need a favour.