Away Form

[remembercolinlee]

So the most sensible solution would have been to back Sherwood and sack the entire team then yes?

Nope...but it is very telling that the players that gave up in games were ditched when Pochetinno took over.
Again...I ain't defending Wenger but...imo...sacking Wenger alone will not solve your problems. You need a clear out of players who have a piss poor attitude.
Anyhow I'm off out so will leave you in peace

 

[The RDBD]

Wenger gets paid £9m a year salary, it's his job to put a team together and get them them to play consistently well. If he thinks the players aren't up for the task, change them. He has one of the biggest budgets in the Premiership, with some of the best facilities and scouting networks available. It really gets my back up when people make excuses for privileged people like him. He is one of the highest earners managing one of the biggest clubs in Europe. He should be doing better. There isn't any ****ing excuses for him, none whatsoever.

Ouch.

IMHO the problem is that in his heyday there
was only really one opponent to deal with,
on-pitch and financially, for both the PL title
and his precious top 4 slot. On the latter, as
the number of threats has become two the
typical final third season surge is no longer
enough.

I wonder if losing the CL slot in 2013 would
have been the best thing that could have
happened to Arsenal in terms of reality check
and rebuilding upwards towards the PL/CL
levels you had prior to 2010.

 

[lazarus20000]

Ouch.

IMHO the problem is that in his heyday there
was only really one opponent to deal with,
on-pitch and financially, for both the PL title
and his precious top 4 slot. On the latter, as
the number of threats has become two the
typical final third season surge is no longer
enough.

I wonder if losing the CL slot in 2013 would
have been the best thing that could have
happened to Arsenal in terms of reality check
and rebuilding upwards towards the PL/CL
levels you had prior to 2010.

I agree, as soon as better managers came in with resources that could challenge us, he was never able to compete. He hid behind the new stadium and self imposed financial restrictions to cover his tactical/player selection difficencies, and his stubbornness to hold onto them so he could be proven right.

What's happening now was predicted many years ago on this forum and being 6th reflects exactly where Wenger should be in terms of managerial ability. I'm not anti Wenger and don't hate him, I'm just frustrated that it's allowed to drag on for this long, like he's some Messiah that should be allowed to choose when he wants to go.

Yesterday's game was an embarrassment, other than 10 mins we were never in the game. Not like we have crap players, we have some of the best in Europe, but they looked terrible in a NLD.

As for not being in the CL, we stopped being competitive in that tournament 8 years ago.

 

[white_gunner]

I'm not anti Wenger and don't hate him, I'm just frustrated that it's allowed to drag on for this long, like he's some Messiah that should be allowed to choose when he wants to go.

I highlighted this part because I definitely agree here. We are at the point where I just do not understand the purpose of holding on to him. What, are we afraid we’ll drop into 7-10th with someone else?? But for some insane reason our board seems to believe it’s unthinkable to part ways with him, and that arsenal and Arsene Wenger cannot exist apart. Sooner or later you have to just move on instead of handing him contract after contract after contract.

 

[lazarus20000]

I highlighted this part because I definitely agree here. We are at the point where I just do not understand the purpose of holding on to him. What, are we afraid we’ll drop into 7-10th with someone else?? But for some insane reason our board seems to believe it’s unthinkable to part ways with him, and that arsenal and Arsene Wenger cannot exist apart. Sooner or later you have to just move on instead of handing him contract after contract after contract.

It's not like he's cheap either, he gets a whopping £9m a year salary. We could comfortably get a better manager that could oversee our rebuilding process. He's ruined our midfield with ****e like Xhaka and Elneny, and failed to replace Cazorla when it was clear to see his injuries became too much.

We need someone brave to tackle our issues head on, not be afraid to ask for help or buy what's necessary to fix it. Also someone who knows what he's doing is a good start.

Wenger had his time, let someone else have the opportunity to take our great club forward. Let us not get stuck in the past of Wengers previous glories. We are more than one man.

 

[TheBear]

Cini is right, the manager makes a huge difference. There is a big difference at winning a few domestic cups with a big club and resources of Arsenal than being title challengers against the very best. He hasn't been able to get his players to consistently perform for over 10 years now. If a manager of a business or a teacher of a class fails to get their employees/pupils performing, who's fault is it? Can't see the shareholders or parents blaming the staff or their children can you? So why is football any different when it's result and profit based?

What about when fergie left, I don't recall anyone blaming the players when Moyes flopped. What about Sherwood for Spurs? AVB for Chelsea? Soon to be Conte? The list goes on mate.

If managers get sacked for less, like Conte is soon to be by the looks of It, why hasn't Wenger? Yesterday's performance highlighted the gulf between the teams, not because of the players but from the managers own doing.

He's right about some things but exaggerating as always.

Adding better defenders and DM would make a huge difference - Wenger or not.

The problem with Cini's logic for
1. Since say 2008 - Have we even once had the best squad in the league? I would argue No.
Soo taking the manager out of the equation - we still should'nt be winning the league.
- Using Fergie as a counter argument also doesnt work because the guy is arguably the greatest manager of all time. He's an exception rather than the rule.

2. If the players make ZERO difference like Cini keeps saying. Why dont we just sign a bunch of Second Division players on the cheap as somehow we will still finish 3rd-5th as the quality of the squad 'doesnt matter' at all. Would be mighty impressive to watch.

 

[lazarus20000]

He's right about some things but exaggerating as always.

Adding better defenders and DM would make a huge difference - Wenger or not.

The problem with Cini's logic for
1. Since say 2008 - Have we even once had the best squad in the league? I would argue No.
Soo taking the manager out of the equation - we still should'nt be winning the league.
- Using Fergie as a counter argument also doesnt work because the guy is arguably the greatest manager of all time. He's an exception rather than the rule.

2. If the players make ZERO difference like Cini keeps saying. Why dont we just sign a bunch of Second Division players on the cheap as somehow we will still finish 3rd-5th as the quality of the squad 'doesnt matter' at all. Would be mighty impressive to watch.

Of course I don't agree with his over exaggerations as I've said before, if it wasn't for Wengers rigidness and stubbornness over the years, he could have won the league once or twice more if he bought the right player or change in tactic.

But one thing I do vehemently agree with is Wenger has to go. There is no point him staying on for another season. There are a few good managers around that would do a better job identifying our shortcomings and help in rebuilding. Wenger doesn't see our problems and I don't want to see us buy another attacking player in the window.

It would be better for a new manager to work with Minlinstat and Sanellha over the summer to rebuilding, working with Wenger will only make things more difficult.

 

[cini65]

Moi? Exaggerate?

 

[cini65]

It's not about winning the league. It's about playing appropriately good football with the squad at our disposal and having decent tactics and gameplans. Really not fussed if we win the league. I mean come on, we're never going to have the funds of united, City or Chelsea. But christ spurs and Liverpool won't either but at least you can see they have a plan.

We have none of that.

And of course buying league 2 players is not going to work. What I mean is, sixth spot is Wenger's glass ceiling. Buying £75m players is not going to magically projects him beyond that because he's not capable of setting up a team to battle any club with players just as good as ours and we'll never have a team with better individuals than the five teams above us. We need someone who can mould a team and make them achieve things together. Wenger can't do that. It's pointless treading water. Well I say pointless. We've done it for over a decade so **** it, let's do it for another decade.

 

[The RDBD]

The moment you can no longer qualify this season
for the CL via either the PL or EL, is when I suspect
Wenger will announce he is going.

 

[TheBear]

The moment you can no longer qualify this season
for the CL via either the PL or EL, is when I suspect
Wenger will announce he is going.

Kinda hope so. Would be happy to see someone like Ancelotti come in. Although If I could choose a successor I would go for either Simeone or Allegri.

I feel bad he's been allowed to go on for soo long.

We're approaching a Brian Clough type scenario where his legacy is getting further tainted the longer he stays on.

But I cant help but think Wenger will see out his contract.

 

[white_gunner]

But I cant help but think Wenger will see out his contract.

I’m certain he will. He constantly mentions “never having broke a contract” and I think he is far too arrogant/proud to start doing it at the club he’s been at for 20+ years.

The key is next season the fans need to make themselves heard, and make it clear NO NEW CONTRACT. Otherwise this will keep happening again and again and again.

 

[lazarus20000]

I’m certain he will. He constantly mentions “never having broke a contract” and I think he is far too arrogant/proud to start doing it at the club he’s been at for 20+ years.

The key is next season the fans need to make themselves heard, and make it clear NO NEW CONTRACT. Otherwise this will keep happening again and again and again.

According to him, if he wasn't seen to be making progress, he would step down. I'm fully expecting him to honour that and leave his contract early. Potentially finishing 6th in the league is well below par for a club like Arsenal and that should justify his exit this summer. Whether that will happen is another matter.

It's just another wasted year when we could be focusing on rebuilding the club.

 

[The RDBD]

According to him, if he wasn't seen to be making progress, he would step down. I'm fully expecting him to honour that and leave his contract early. Potentially finishing 6th in the league is well below par for a club like Arsenal and that should justify his exit this summer. Whether that will happen is another matter.

If he is driven now by the pride of regaining a CL slot,
and reinstating St Totts day for your supporters, then
fine. There would be shades of Fergie 2013 in that.

But if he fails, then what is left ??
His pride has been further beaten, and he has not
satisfied the Kroenke balance sheet bottom line.

 

[lazarus20000]

If he is driven now by the pride of regaining a CL slot,
and reinstating St Totts day for your supporters, then
fine. There would be shades of Fergie 2013 in that.

But if he fails, then what is left ??
His pride has been further beaten, and he has not
satisfied the Kroenke balance sheet bottom line.

Not a chance in hell he can do that now. There are 5 other managers better than him, and that includes Poch. Sometimes you have to accept that you're past it and there are better managers around you. All he is doing is tarnishing his legacy.

 

[white_gunner]

According to him, if he wasn't seen to be making progress, he would step down. I'm fully expecting him to honour that and leave his contract early. Potentially finishing 6th in the league is well below par for a club like Arsenal and that should justify his exit this summer. Whether that will happen is another matter.

It's just another wasted year when we could be focusing on rebuilding the club.

but you know well and I do too Wenger's strange definitions of 'progress', 'goals' and 'achievements'. I could easily see him spinning a 6th place finish into some bizarre explanation of progress. like how we 'got rid of uncommitted players this season' and why finishing 6th is 'a special case with extenuating circumstances'. I wouldn't put it past him to say something nonsensical like that...

 

[cini65]

Come now. He was past it and nowhere near a top manager a decade ago and he still lingered on like a musty fart. Why would he step down now? He's been crap for years, one more year of crap (and collecting another £9m) is unlikely to make him quit when it's quite clear he's oblivious to how crap he is. He'll have to be pushed. Which means he won't go as he won't be pushed. Which means I'm seeing one more year of this twat as the most likely scenario.