Away Form

[BrunelGooner]

I know it's been discussed multiple times on various match threads. However, it really has been deplorable this season. I know we've not always been great away from home against the Top 6, but now, it looks like we could lose against anyone away from home.

In the league, we've played 14 matches away from home. We've won 3, drawn 4, lost 7.

Lost: 7.

That's 50% of our away games.

Embarrassing would be an understatement.

When you also factor in that we lost to a Cologne team away from home, who hadn't won a game all season, in the Europa. And when we got whipped by Championship opposition Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup, it paints an even bleaker picture.

Even in games where we've been leading (Watford, Bournemouth, West Brom, Swansea etc), we've gone on to not win those games.

Why is it that every time a team puts us under the slightest hint of pressure, we wilt? Every time we concede a goal, no matter how solid we may have looked beforehand, we then go on to play like a bunch of disorganised, disorientated schoolkids?

It keeps happening time and time again.

I know it's cliched and Wenger bleats about it a lot, but in terms of mental strength, this is probably the mentally weakest team he's managed for as long as I can remember.

And I just can't comprehend that, no matter what he/the coaching staff are telling the players, we look shambolic in defence every single week.

Where is it all stemming from? Are our players really that poor? Are they not being coached properly? Do they not complement each other as a defensive unit? Are they lacking protection from midfield?

 

[PINKIE]

Our away form is ****. When was the last season we were this bad away from home ?

For me our problems stem from not having a proper holding midfielder. Not sure how many times we can have this same discussion, but it so badly need addressing. Look at the Spuds, they've got Dembele, Wanyama and Dier who can all play that role. We've got Elneny.

Until we sort this position out then we are just going to get overrun in midfield and our defence will always be under pressure.

 

[remembercolinlee]

None of your attacking players offered anything defensively.

Kane, Dele, Lamela, Erikson and Son all put in a real shift defence wise as well as going forward.

The Arsenal attacking players did nothing to protect your wide players which is why we got a lot of joy today.

A team attacks and defends as a unit...Arsenal players appear to do as they please.

They did it right v Chelsea recently and v us at your place but other than that it has been a mess tbh

 

[cini65]

None of your attacking players offered anything defensively.

Kane, Dele, Lamela, Erikson and Son all put in a real shift defence wise as well as going forward.

The Arsenal attacking players did nothing to protect your wide players which is why we got a lot of joy today.

A team attacks and defends as a unit...Arsenal players appear to do as they please.

They did it right v Chelsea recently and v us at your place but other than that it has been a mess tbh

And this is why they need a proper manager.

 

[remembercolinlee]

And this is why they need a proper manager.

Not disagreeing about your manager...None of my business tbf...but the players should be ashamed

 

[cini65]

Not disagreeing about your manager...None of my business tbf...but the players should be ashamed

All 100+ of them who've done the same thing capitulating season after season for 15 years? They should ALL be ashamed? They're all lazy failures? Even the ones who leave, win trophies elsewhere? What about the winners we sign who then join us and do **** all as soon as they're managed by Wenger? Is there not a running trend here after 15 years and 100+ players that it might not actually be them that's really significant factor here?

 

[remembercolinlee]

All 100+ of them who've done the same thing capitulating season after season for 15 years? They should ALL be ashamed? They're all lazy failures? Even the ones who leave, win trophies elsewhere? What about the winners we sign who then join us and do **** all as soon as they're managed by Wenger? Is there not a running trend here after 15 years and 100+ players that it might not actually be them that's really significant factor here?

Imho nothing justifies players not trying.
They may hate the manager, they may not understand his tactics, the tactics may be **** but that does not mean they lose the ability to run and try their hardest.
Beyond that...wenger won 3 Fa cups in 4 years. Last year they beat city in the semi and Chelsea in the final...they are again in a final this season...beating Chelsea in the semi finals yet he is the problem?
The players need to try in every match and they clearly are not. And that ain't ok.
But me and you ain' gonna agree so I will leave it there mate.
Enjoy your weekend

 

[Sucky]

It's clear and has been for some time arsenal are declining under Wenger.

They have got to replace him to move forward in my opinion.

 

[cini65]

Imho nothing justifies players not trying.
They may hate the manager, they may not understand his tactics, the tactics may be **** but that does not mean they lose the ability to run and try their hardest.
Beyond that...wenger won 3 Fa cups in 4 years. Last year they beat city in the semi and Chelsea in the final...they are again in a final this season...beating Chelsea in the semi finals yet he is the problem?
The players need to try in every match and they clearly are not. And that ain't ok.
But me and you ain' gonna agree so I will leave it there mate.
Enjoy your weekend

Prove to me that your team of superstars would be trying their hearts out if Wenger was their manager instead of Poch. Its easy to say what you're saying when your team have a leader to play for. It's something all teams want. We don't have it and you do. You don't know what it's like to not have it with your current squad so you therefore you are just assuming all your minions are all naturally self motivating

 

[gills4prem]

Prove to me that your team of superstars would be trying their hearts out if Wenger was their manager instead of Poch. Its easy to say what you're saying when your team have a leader to play for. It's something all teams want. We don't have it and you do. You don't know what it's like to not have it with your current squad so you therefore you are just assuming all your minions are all naturally self motivating

Also who are the leaders on the pitch, if it all goes to **** who grabs the poor performers and tell them to do there jobs.

 

[lazarus20000]

Imho nothing justifies players not trying.
They may hate the manager, they may not understand his tactics, the tactics may be **** but that does not mean they lose the ability to run and try their hardest.
Beyond that...wenger won 3 Fa cups in 4 years. Last year they beat city in the semi and Chelsea in the final...they are again in a final this season...beating Chelsea in the semi finals yet he is the problem?
The players need to try in every match and they clearly are not. And that ain't ok.
But me and you ain' gonna agree so I will leave it there mate.
Enjoy your weekend

Cini is right, the manager makes a huge difference. There is a big difference at winning a few domestic cups with a big club and resources of Arsenal than being title challengers against the very best. He hasn't been able to get his players to consistently perform for over 10 years now. If a manager of a business or a teacher of a class fails to get their employees/pupils performing, who's fault is it? Can't see the shareholders or parents blaming the staff or their children can you? So why is football any different when it's result and profit based?

What about when fergie left, I don't recall anyone blaming the players when Moyes flopped. What about Sherwood for Spurs? AVB for Chelsea? Soon to be Conte? The list goes on mate.

If managers get sacked for less, like Conte is soon to be by the looks of It, why hasn't Wenger? Yesterday's performance highlighted the gulf between the teams, not because of the players but from the managers own doing.

 

[The RDBD]

Imho nothing justifies players not trying.
They may hate the manager, they may not understand his tactics, the tactics may be **** but that does not mean they lose the ability to run and try their hardest.
Beyond that...wenger won 3 Fa cups in 4 years. Last year they beat city in the semi and Chelsea in the final...they are again in a final this season...beating Chelsea in the semi finals yet he is the problem?
The players need to try in every match and they clearly are not. And that ain't ok.

And that is the shocking indictment.

Players who literally seem to be in "cup final" mode
when it comes to which games they front up in,
and a manager who does not instil the fear that if
the players put in their usual shifts in the other games
then they will be nowhere near the team sheet come
the real cup finals.

 

[lazarus20000]

And that is the shocking indictment.

Players who literally seem to be in "cup final" mode
when it comes to which games they front up in,
and a manager who does not instil the fear that if
the players put in their usual shifts in the other games
then they will be nowhere near the team sheet come
the real cup finals.

Wenger gets paid £9m a year salary, it's his job to put a team together and get them them to play consistently well. If he thinks the players aren't up for the task, change them. He has one of the biggest budgets in the Premiership, with some of the best facilities and scouting networks available. It really gets my back up when people make excuses for privileged people like him. He is one of the highest earners managing one of the biggest clubs in Europe. He should be doing better. There isn't any ****ing excuses for him, none whatsoever.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Prove to me that your team of superstars would be trying their hearts out if Wenger was their manager instead of Poch. Its easy to say what you're saying when your team have a leader to play for. It's something all teams want. We don't have it and you do. You don't know what it's like to

Prove to me that your team of superstars would be trying their hearts out if Wenger was their manager instead of Poch. Its easy to say what you're saying when your team have a leader to play for. It's something all teams want. We don't have it and you do. You don't know what it's like to not have it with your current squad so you therefore you are just assuming all your minions are all naturally self motivating

Your response has nothing to do with my post mate.
My point is very simple.
IF any player does not try EVERY time they play then THEY are soley responsible.
I can live with a poor performance as long as the player gives it their all ... personally I do not think a manager is to blame for a player not being ****ed to try.
Managers take the blame for poor tactics, poor substitutions, bad results and bad man management and players should take the blame for not trying.
If Ozil was in the spurs team I would be well ****ed off with his performance yesterday...he was a disgrace effort wise imho.

 

[cini65]

Your response has nothing to do with my post mate.
My point is very simple.
IF any player does not try EVERY time they play then THEY are soley responsible.
I can live with a poor performance as long as the player gives it their all ... personally I do not think a manager is to blame for a player not being ****ed to try.
Managers take the blame for poor tactics, poor substitutions, bad results and bad man management and players should take the blame for not trying.
If Ozil was in the spurs team I would be well ****ed off with his performance yesterday...he was a disgrace effort wise imho.

Bad or non existent man management from a manager (although I still dispute that Wenger qualifies as being deserving of the title of 'manager') will directly impact player happiness and effort levels. You only have to look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, City to see how different the same sets of players will perform depending on how they're set up by a good or **** manager they do or don't have belief in. Arsenal's players are some of the worst prepared in the league. Tactics crap, training crap, mentally crap, individual gameplans crap. You are a funny, balanced poster... but you're delusional if you think you have a squad of self motivated players and that it's nothing to do with them wanting to do it for Poch. Stick a sack of **** in the spurs manager hotseat and it wouldn't last long.

 

[lazarus20000]

Your response has nothing to do with my post mate.
My point is very simple.
IF any player does not try EVERY time they play then THEY are soley responsible.
I can live with a poor performance as long as the player gives it their all ... personally I do not think a manager is to blame for a player not being ****ed to try.
Managers take the blame for poor tactics, poor substitutions, bad results and bad man management and players should take the blame for not trying.
If Ozil was in the spurs team I would be well ****ed off with his performance yesterday...he was a disgrace effort wise imho.

Ozil gets continually accused for being lazy, but is still one of the highest assist makers in Europe. Not sure where you get the idea that our players didn't try, because i watched the game and they did. It's difficult to look good when the other team is dominant. That's just the way it looks. Running around like headless chickens wouldn't have changed one bit, we still would have lost.

The main reason why we keep harping on about the manager is because it's his duty to create a well balanced team. We clearly weren't and got dominated by a team that was. I don't believe that any of our players intentionally played any worse than they did against you, or they were super up for it against Everton. You are simply better than Everton, that is reflected by the league and with anyone with eyes.

 

[lazarus20000]

Bad or non existent man management from a manager (although I still dispute that Wenger qualifies as being deserving of the title of 'manager') will directly impact player happiness and effort levels. You only have to look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, City to see how different the same sets of players will perform depending on how they're set up by a good or **** manager they do or don't have belief in. Arsenal's players are some of the worst prepared in the league. Tactics crap, training crap, mentally crap, individual gameplans crap. You are a funny, balanced poster... but you're delusional if you think you have a squad of self motivated players and that it's nothing to do with them wanting to do it for Poch. Stick a sack of **** in the spurs manager hotseat and it wouldn't last long.

Dude just mention Tim Sherwood and that disproves his entire theory. I wonder if he blames the players for making Spurs **** then.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Bad or non existent man management from a manager (although I still dispute that Wenger qualifies as being deserving of the title of 'manager') will directly impact player happiness and effort levels. You only have to look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, City to see how different the same sets of players will perform depending on how they're set up by a good or **** manager they do or don't have belief in. Arsenal's players are some of the worst prepared in the league. Tactics crap, training crap, mentally crap, individual gameplans crap. You are a funny, balanced poster... but you're delusional if you think you have a squad of self motivated players and that it's nothing to do with them wanting to do it for Poch. Stick a sack of **** in the spurs manager hotseat and it wouldn't last long.

I have never said a manager is not important or responsible for a team...my only point is that players should try in every game...nothing justifies the can't be arses attitude.
I felt the same when spurs players downed tools under Ramos and in the AVB/Sherwood season. Not trying while earning a fortune when fans are paying money to turn up and watch is unforgivable imo.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Ozil gets continually accused for being lazy, but is still one of the highest assist makers in Europe. Not sure where you get the idea that our players didn't try, because i watched the game and they did. It's difficult to look good when the other team is dominant. That's just the way it looks. Running around like headless chickens wouldn't have changed one bit, we still would have lost.

The main reason why we keep harping on about the manager is because it's his duty to create a well balanced team. We clearly weren't and got dominated by a team that was. I don't believe that any of our players intentionally played any worse than they did against you, or they were super up for it against Everton. You are simply better than Everton, that is reflected by the league and with anyone with eyes.

I ain't defending Wenger and ain't adding to the discussion as I feel I am derailing so will leave you guys to chat.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend

 

[cini65]

I have never said a manager is not important or responsible for a team...my only point is that players should try in every game...nothing justifies the can't be arses attitude.
I felt the same when spurs players downed tools under Ramos and in the AVB/Sherwood season. Not trying while earning a fortune when fans are paying money to turn up and watch is unforgivable imo.

So the most sensible solution would have been to back Sherwood and sack the entire team then yes?