I continue to think AVB's done a very good job, because he's almost always won when he's had his key player. He may yet prove to be a bad manager, but as long as he wins when the squad is in decent shape he deserves credit.
AVB The Beginning
- Thread starter Spurf
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I'm beginning to feel better about things with AVB,I was actually singing about Spurs after this result. I'm still cautious though especially with two tough matches coming up but with a full team from which to choose and a signing like Moutinho in January I think we can do better.
thor there are two ways to view this.
A - were struggling to perform as a team over 90 minutes, we struggle to play exciting football and this is being over looked as were getting results. Its easy for any manager to hide behind results. Pardew is a good example as now newcastle fans are seeing how crap he is.
The poor performances are a result of AVB being obsessed with a system that doesnt suit the squad and means we only perform for short periods.
Once the luck runs out and our poor performances are rewarded with poor results then we will see AVB for what he is, a dour rigid manager whos tactics are flawed.
OR
B) The poor performances are due to AVB not having the chance to play his best team and it will take some time for this squad to adjust to playing this new system as naturally this squad is set up to play a counter attacking game.
The goals and good results are coming as a result of AVB showing faith in certain players and while the performances havent been great, then clearly the results are allowing AVB time to prove his system will work.
Once the team has fully settled and our injured players are back then we will witness exciting dominant performances to go with the positive results.
......
Either way we will soon find out and its fair to say the overall view is as a set of fans were happy with the recent results but left feeling rather unsatisfied with the performance level.
A - were struggling to perform as a team over 90 minutes, we struggle to play exciting football and this is being over looked as were getting results. Its easy for any manager to hide behind results. Pardew is a good example as now newcastle fans are seeing how crap he is.
The poor performances are a result of AVB being obsessed with a system that doesnt suit the squad and means we only perform for short periods.
Once the luck runs out and our poor performances are rewarded with poor results then we will see AVB for what he is, a dour rigid manager whos tactics are flawed.
OR
B) The poor performances are due to AVB not having the chance to play his best team and it will take some time for this squad to adjust to playing this new system as naturally this squad is set up to play a counter attacking game.
The goals and good results are coming as a result of AVB showing faith in certain players and while the performances havent been great, then clearly the results are allowing AVB time to prove his system will work.
Once the team has fully settled and our injured players are back then we will witness exciting dominant performances to go with the positive results.
......
Either way we will soon find out and its fair to say the overall view is as a set of fans were happy with the recent results but left feeling rather unsatisfied with the performance level.
I would agree with the above assessment. I've tried to stay open minded about AVB, and obviously, as a Spurs fan, I hope it's B.
With a few exceptions, most of our performances have been less than awe inspiring. However, on the plus side Defoe & Lennon seem rejuvenated - far more motivated - which would suggest that they're happy, at least.
Our overall defence has been woeful. Hopefully, when Kaboul, Benny, and Parker are back to full fitness we will see a far more resilient defence than we've seen so far.
One other big worry, for me, is that we still cannot seem to develop that overall mental toughness - that ruthlessness - to put teams away. We still see far too many nail biting finishes to many of our games. If we are ever to challenge for the top, we must learn to develop that attitude.
With a few exceptions, most of our performances have been less than awe inspiring. However, on the plus side Defoe & Lennon seem rejuvenated - far more motivated - which would suggest that they're happy, at least.
Our overall defence has been woeful. Hopefully, when Kaboul, Benny, and Parker are back to full fitness we will see a far more resilient defence than we've seen so far.
One other big worry, for me, is that we still cannot seem to develop that overall mental toughness - that ruthlessness - to put teams away. We still see far too many nail biting finishes to many of our games. If we are ever to challenge for the top, we must learn to develop that attitude.
I'm hoping it's b as well,i'm sure the defence has missed the injured players,and when they are all back,will improve.My concern is we don't close the game and let teams back in,we have to start doing this
There's a lot to answer there Boss. Firstly we don't really know yet what AVB is capable of because he wasn't given time enough at Chelsea to prove what sort of a manager he can be over the longer term. So I don't think YET that we can fully describe him as dour etc.
Secondly I agree with you about luck. I cannot decry it in Chelsea and then accept it in us. We have been lucky ie a deflected goal and in off the goalie yesterday amongst others so yes it could run out and the poor results will reflect what have been sub standard Spurs performances.
The goals are coming but in fits and starts ie 3 defeats and 4 wins,there's no real cohesion there. Will our next defeat spark a run of defeats and then our next win spark a run of wins.
It will be easier to judge AVB after a full season when he's had time to settle.
A better performance level but with defeats is tough to take but if a team plays well then usually the positive results will come in time whereas if a team plays badly but wins then the poor results will follow.
Overall when we get our full squad in then I think the performances will improve and we'll have more positive less nail biting results but that's only an opinion not yet based on too many facts. I agree with all the other points in your assessment.
Everton and Swansea will be tough tests. Normally Everton v Spurs matches are entertaining and good to watch whereas we know very little about Swansea yet. If we fail to inspire against Everton I feel perhaps the dour performances will continue leaving us dissatisfied and uncertain.
Secondly I agree with you about luck. I cannot decry it in Chelsea and then accept it in us. We have been lucky ie a deflected goal and in off the goalie yesterday amongst others so yes it could run out and the poor results will reflect what have been sub standard Spurs performances.
The goals are coming but in fits and starts ie 3 defeats and 4 wins,there's no real cohesion there. Will our next defeat spark a run of defeats and then our next win spark a run of wins.
It will be easier to judge AVB after a full season when he's had time to settle.
A better performance level but with defeats is tough to take but if a team plays well then usually the positive results will come in time whereas if a team plays badly but wins then the poor results will follow.
Overall when we get our full squad in then I think the performances will improve and we'll have more positive less nail biting results but that's only an opinion not yet based on too many facts. I agree with all the other points in your assessment.
Everton and Swansea will be tough tests. Normally Everton v Spurs matches are entertaining and good to watch whereas we know very little about Swansea yet. If we fail to inspire against Everton I feel perhaps the dour performances will continue leaving us dissatisfied and uncertain.
Interesting post Edit: ("Boss" not TMT) with good points in a) and b).
I'm with part "b" at the moment. The football hasn't been great, but it's down to injuries and certain players who we've had to play, not being right for the formation, for me.
To think we're where we are with all things considered, is marvelous. If we're getting results from mediocre performances, imagine when we've got a full team to choose from, + some more signings AVB wants!!
He's proven he's not dour or stubborn either, as he's switched the formation up to suit. I don't think he could be doing much more at the moment.
I've been impressed so far, even if the performances aren't quite there yet. That'll come.
But until we've got players fit, we'll continue to leak goals, as our defence has been shifted about all season. Some continuity is needed soon.
I'm with part "b" at the moment. The football hasn't been great, but it's down to injuries and certain players who we've had to play, not being right for the formation, for me.
To think we're where we are with all things considered, is marvelous. If we're getting results from mediocre performances, imagine when we've got a full team to choose from, + some more signings AVB wants!!
He's proven he's not dour or stubborn either, as he's switched the formation up to suit. I don't think he could be doing much more at the moment.
I've been impressed so far, even if the performances aren't quite there yet. That'll come.
But until we've got players fit, we'll continue to leak goals, as our defence has been shifted about all season. Some continuity is needed soon.
Those four consecutive wins have put AVB within a whisker of overtaking Harry's record as Tottenham's most successful manager, statistically speaking, since the club joined the Football League in 1908.
A win at Everton on Sunday (by no means beyond the realms of possibility) would see AVB with his nose in front...
Tottenham Hotspur Manager's Records & Statistics 1898-2012
A win at Everton on Sunday (by no means beyond the realms of possibility) would see AVB with his nose in front...
Tottenham Hotspur Manager's Records & Statistics 1898-2012
Agree with Roo on this one. OK some of the performances have been fairly poor but we have been consistently picking up wins when not playing well., something you could never say we did at Spurs in years gone by! Plus we don't seem to have a problem scoring goals (second top scorers in the league). I really think Benny and Scotty will make such a huge difference in this area. With Vertonghen and Caulker, or with Kaboul when he's finally back, in the centre I am confident we will stop conceding so many sloppy goals. I am really excited about what this squad can achieve. League cup aside, I would have bitten anyone's hand off if I was offered this league position and through to the last 32 of the Europa league at this stage of the season. I don't even think we need to buy in January unless it is a genuine marquee signing like Moutinho.
I don't think its fair to look at managerial stats, unless your comparing managers that have been in charge for a similar period, or at least 2 years, if AVB can match (or better) arry over the same sustained period then no question, but its a bit early to be looking at AVBs stats as a manager and comparing him to Arry, or any other manager.
I think we need to buy a creative midfielder & striker ,crackerman,we will have aproblem if ,god forbid JD get's an injury
Yes but who would we buy? Anyone we go for will be vastly over priced. We have pretty much managed just with Defoe up to now. Last season we played Adebayor with VDV behind him. If Defoe got injured then we could replace with Adebayor with Bale behind or Dempsey/Sig. The big time to worry will be during the ACON as we really will be screwed if Defoe got injured then.
who?,that is a big problem,we do have 20 million to spend according to reports,but top players may well cost more.
Thanks Roo,TOTALLY agree with your last point there.
tots,VdV was a top player who didn't cost the earth so we could get lucky again and find a top player for a bargain.
tots,VdV was a top player who didn't cost the earth so we could get lucky again and find a top player for a bargain.
Think AVB has a done a brilliant job over the past few weeks, this coming from one of his biggest critics.
He's got us playing some really good football recently which is one the main things I look for in a Spurs team and a far cry from the **** we witnessed in the first batch of games of the season. He's also shown a lot more faith in Dawson by selecting him over Gallas (finally!) a couple of times and I was happy to hear Naughton was given a start vs Fulham at right back. I'm also loving the fact he's made Tom Carroll now very much part of the first team squad, I've been a huge fan of his since watching bits of him at Orient and then his debut for us in Europa last season, so seeing him involved a lot in Europa plus cameos against Wigan, Arsenal and Fulham have been great.
He's got the best out Defoe and Lennon, both these guys haven't played this well in yonks and a lot of credit needs to go to Andre, Luis and Jose. Defoe looks like he'd find it harder to miss at the moment and Lennon has been ripping up fullbacks similar to how he did when he burst onto the scene as a 17/18 year old.
So well done Andre (and Luis and Jose plus all the other coaching staff), please keep this up
.
He's got us playing some really good football recently which is one the main things I look for in a Spurs team and a far cry from the **** we witnessed in the first batch of games of the season. He's also shown a lot more faith in Dawson by selecting him over Gallas (finally!) a couple of times and I was happy to hear Naughton was given a start vs Fulham at right back. I'm also loving the fact he's made Tom Carroll now very much part of the first team squad, I've been a huge fan of his since watching bits of him at Orient and then his debut for us in Europa last season, so seeing him involved a lot in Europa plus cameos against Wigan, Arsenal and Fulham have been great.
He's got the best out Defoe and Lennon, both these guys haven't played this well in yonks and a lot of credit needs to go to Andre, Luis and Jose. Defoe looks like he'd find it harder to miss at the moment and Lennon has been ripping up fullbacks similar to how he did when he burst onto the scene as a 17/18 year old.
So well done Andre (and Luis and Jose plus all the other coaching staff), please keep this up
.
Jack, extremely good point about our win consistently and us not being able to do it in years gone by. - so true.
We actually had the opposite on many occasions last season - played brilliantly, but walked away wondering how we didn't win. I remember tearing my hair out at times when we missed chance after chance.
It's not just the defence though, it's the goal keeper. - a big % of the confidence within the defence stems from the keeper. We have to stop changing who we're using now. I'm guessing it's lloris for the prem, but he also has to be the cup goalkeeper too not that we're in the knockout stages.
Scott coming back will provide us with another brick wall, like sandro. However, IMO, we shouldn't be playing sandro and Parker together all the time, as I don't see them working as a defensive mid partnership. it'll make us too claustrophobic with 6 defensive players that all lack a creative spark. Sandro and Parker need to be rotated regularly so neither get burnt out, IMO.
which comes back to a point that a few of us have made, in that we need that creative midfielder like Moutinho. Having Sandro, Parker, Moutinho and Dembele as 4 players who can play that defensive mid and/or middle attacking role, will make us very strong in the centre of the park. Unfortunately, I just don't think we've quite got the depth or skillsets there yet, hence why we're crying out for that additional Creative midfielder.
whether we get that marquee player or not, we have to strengthen in that position in Jan, in some way shape or form.
and has a lot of us have said again, a striker is also needed. - That is a tough one. There don't seem to be many about at the moment for the right price. I hate loans as they are so unsettling for the squad, but I think that's the route we'll go down in Jan and levy will wait till the summer for a permanent deal.
start thinking about which strikers aren't getting games in the prem at the moment...in usual Levy fashion, one of those players will be our 11pm deadline signing!
If you take our position into consideration AVB has done well.
The swagger and style is not there. The lack of creative play
in central area has not made us good on the eye.
In a perfect world if Dempsey can't step up which looks likely then
someone nearer to the quality VDV should be brought in to support
the attack. Dembele maybe could have this role with a real creative
midfielder bought instead.
The fullbacks have been awful (except Verts) this season but with Benny back
this should improve.
Defoe has been brilliant so far but IMHO I don't think he's top draw. Imagine how
deadly we would be with Mitchu upfront . He's all round play , finishing , a sort
of mobile Berbertov .
We would be very lucky if we see any changes as Daniel doesn't like to get it out.
So AVB has done well considering he has his hands slightly tied by the board.
End of term AVB 7/10
Harry this time last year 9/10
The swagger and style is not there. The lack of creative play
in central area has not made us good on the eye.
In a perfect world if Dempsey can't step up which looks likely then
someone nearer to the quality VDV should be brought in to support
the attack. Dembele maybe could have this role with a real creative
midfielder bought instead.
The fullbacks have been awful (except Verts) this season but with Benny back
this should improve.
Defoe has been brilliant so far but IMHO I don't think he's top draw. Imagine how
deadly we would be with Mitchu upfront . He's all round play , finishing , a sort
of mobile Berbertov .
We would be very lucky if we see any changes as Daniel doesn't like to get it out.
So AVB has done well considering he has his hands slightly tied by the board.
End of term AVB 7/10
Harry this time last year 9/10