Assumptions and the "Norwich Way"
- Thread starter Bath-Canary
- Start date
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Which of the following managers has the best experience and contacts and is likely to do well in the Championship?
MANAGER A
Youth career
?–1989 Nottingham Forest
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1989–1990 Nottingham Forest 0 (0)
1990–1997 Chesterfield 231 (8)
1997–1999 Bristol City 18 (0)
1999 → Luton Town (loan) 14 (1)
1999–2002 Millwall 69 (3)
2002–2005 Watford 72 (0)
2005–2007 Northampton Town 56 (0)
Total 460 (12)
Teams managed
2011–2012 Watford
2012– ???
MANAGER B
Youth career
1983–1985 Stoke City
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1985–1986 Stoke City 32 (4)
1986–1989 Everton 20 (0)
1989 → Oldham Athletic (loan) 9 (0)
1989–1994 Oldham Athletic 129 (23)
1994–1999 Norwich City 182 (25)
1999–2001 Oldham Athletic 47 (4)
Total 419 (56)
National team
1986 England U21 1 (0)
Teams managed
2014– ???
MANAGER A
Youth career
?–1989 Nottingham Forest
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1989–1990 Nottingham Forest 0 (0)
1990–1997 Chesterfield 231 (8)
1997–1999 Bristol City 18 (0)
1999 → Luton Town (loan) 14 (1)
1999–2002 Millwall 69 (3)
2002–2005 Watford 72 (0)
2005–2007 Northampton Town 56 (0)
Total 460 (12)
Teams managed
2011–2012 Watford
2012– ???
MANAGER B
Youth career
1983–1985 Stoke City
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1985–1986 Stoke City 32 (4)
1986–1989 Everton 20 (0)
1989 → Oldham Athletic (loan) 9 (0)
1989–1994 Oldham Athletic 129 (23)
1994–1999 Norwich City 182 (25)
1999–2001 Oldham Athletic 47 (4)
Total 419 (56)
National team
1986 England U21 1 (0)
Teams managed
2014– ???
sean dyche i assume?
what the hell has their playing careers got to do with management?
and the answer to your question is sean dyche.
obviously.
what the hell has their playing careers got to do with management?
and the answer to your question is sean dyche.
obviously.
I was thinking about who has the best contacts and experience and that it didn't seem to be too relevant to how well Burnley did. It seems to me that it is getting the team to gel and play well together that is the crux more than anything else. What Sean Dyche did with such limited resources was phenomenal.
Can we learn anything from the 'Burnley Way'?
Can we learn anything from the 'Burnley Way'?
adams is a fair bit older than dyche and has never been even an assistant manager, let alone lead man. that is a far greater concern than 'contacts'. the point i'm making is that we have literally one of the most inexperienced, rookie managers in all the top four english divisions. why have we taken this punt and why now, of all times?
its been mentioned already but if the board thought adams' youth side played 'the norwich way' (assuming this means neat, attractive football) then they obviously weren't watching very closely as they didn't play that style at all. indeed we were very defensive but played sharp, incisive counter attacking football with a lone target man at the point. our game was never based around ball retention (which was arguably our sides main weakness). there are so many contradictions coming from the board i'm finding it all very concerning to be honest
Whilst I'm sure we will look to play solid counter attacking game, which is very effective and can be pretty exciting, in several games we play next year we will have to be the aggressor, one this we could not do this year was break down a solid defence and that's going to be important next season, albeit against poorer defences.
absolutely spot on.
and this, for me, is why we won't be near the top of the league next season, based on what we currently have.
we need to make some shrewd moves in the market this summer to readdress the balance. we have some very talented players but that doesn't equate to having the right personnel to do well in this division.
I seem to recall under Lambert we played a lot of long ball or cross field balls with either Tierney or Rusty plucking them out of the air on the touchline, bringing them down and then getting some good crosses in to Holt/SCM/Jackson etc. I quite enjoyed that. It also all seemed to work around the diamond midfield.
The Murphy twins seem very good at pinpoint long balls to each other too. Whether they can cut it at a higher level yet remains to be seen. (btw Sounds like Josh Murphy had a good game for England U19's yesterday but Redderz struggled against a good Brazil Under 21 defence).
One of our biggest problems under Hughton was our inability to get from back to front quickly enough (that and our inability to pass the ball to another Norwich player). If we can get that working again it will help.
Is that the Norwich way though? Good question.
The Murphy twins seem very good at pinpoint long balls to each other too. Whether they can cut it at a higher level yet remains to be seen. (btw Sounds like Josh Murphy had a good game for England U19's yesterday but Redderz struggled against a good Brazil Under 21 defence).
One of our biggest problems under Hughton was our inability to get from back to front quickly enough (that and our inability to pass the ball to another Norwich player). If we can get that working again it will help.
Is that the Norwich way though? Good question.
its not the norwich way that the board are describing, no.
but you're absolutely right about the way we played under lambert and nobody minded!
this might be controversial but i'd sell snodgrass. he's arguably been our best player for the last two years but i think we need pace out wide if adams is to have any success at all. interchange redmond, bennett and muprhy (and hopefully pilks although i think he's a goner).
Our squad is too full of defensive midfielders, who can't pass very well, assuming Leroy leaves, Its a shame Fox went as his is a role that is useful in the championship, that ability to spray balls around is useful when creating attacks. We will also need a Hoolahan type player. the advantage in the Championship is two up front is more possible. it hunk one this that has really damaged our attacks this year was inverted wingers not working, Snodgrass is a talented footballer but has some vast and very exploitable weaknesses, mostly his lack of pace and his one-footedness, he could never shrug a fullback off and accelerate away and when you can do that you need the element of surprise. Everyone in the league knew that Snoddy was going to cut inside and as such he was fairly easy to mark out of being effective. Pilkington was also missed as he is very two footed, his cross agains wigan for Hoolahan's goal shows how much of an advantage that was as he tied Beausejour in a knot. With our current squad I'd look to play:
Ruddy
Russ - Turner - Bennett - Olsson
Tettey - Fer
Redmond - Howson - Plikington
Hooper
Russ - Turner - Bennett - Olsson
Tettey - Fer
Redmond - Howson - Plikington
Hooper
when were playing counter attacking, mostly away, that team has a lot of power and pace and good passing in it and would be extremely hard to break down and could catch team on the break easily. when were looking to be more of an attacking force id go more:
E. Bennett - Turner - R.Bennett - Olsson
Fer
Howson - Hoolahan - Surman
RvW - Hooper
Fer
Howson - Hoolahan - Surman
RvW - Hooper
The pace and width comes from the full backs of Olsson and E. bennett and the Midfield 4 are all creative attacking players allowing leroy to play box-to-box and allowing the rest of the creative midfield to pass the ball between themselves and get it into the strikers. It's a bit more risky but he who dares wins
I'm not sure Snodgrass should leave, maybe all we need is someone brave enough to play him in the number 10 role, with Redmond, Bennett, Pilkington or Murphy either side of him. That is where I could see him being best utilised, as we touched on last season.
Was going to say the same. With Snoddy and Howson as our CAM's we'd be well sorted, and we've already got lots of other wide players. This all depends on what Snodgrass wants obviously but I personally think he'd be better suited to a central role.
No, he plays wide for Scotland and whilst he is pretty decent for them using the term "success" and the Scottish football team in the same sentence is akin to using salad and Scottish cuisine in the same sentence.
snodgrass never plays well in the hole. its been experimented before with norwich, leeds and scotland and he always ends up back out wide because that is his best position
I can't see it working but don't really need to repeat myself or what's been put much better by several above. I feel for him because it's not where someone should start and likely finish their fledgling managerial career. Saw a tweet about Norwich managers who haven't managed again since taking the post. The number seemed high, but I'm not sure what it's like in comparison to other clubs - would be very interesting to work out actually...
That said, and I don't know if it's the couple of beers or a good first day on a new job but wouldn't it be flumping marvelous if he did somehow pull it out the bag. Somehow. Better than that, actually got us playing well, scoring goals, and by the the seasons end, have given decent game time to Loza, the Murphy's, Mcgeehan and that young fella upfront that I keep wanting to call Callum for some reason. Hick. And if he is what the board (and all of us, really) are praying he is, surely he wouldn't do a Lambert to Villa on us. He'd stick around and build something.
If ever we were going to give these youngsters a chance, this is it. And NA is probably the only manager who would do that. I think most others would pass them by and head straight to what will be a sizeable championship chequebook (particularly as we didn't spend in January I don't think...
Better keep drinking.
That said, and I don't know if it's the couple of beers or a good first day on a new job but wouldn't it be flumping marvelous if he did somehow pull it out the bag. Somehow. Better than that, actually got us playing well, scoring goals, and by the the seasons end, have given decent game time to Loza, the Murphy's, Mcgeehan and that young fella upfront that I keep wanting to call Callum for some reason. Hick. And if he is what the board (and all of us, really) are praying he is, surely he wouldn't do a Lambert to Villa on us. He'd stick around and build something.
If ever we were going to give these youngsters a chance, this is it. And NA is probably the only manager who would do that. I think most others would pass them by and head straight to what will be a sizeable championship chequebook (particularly as we didn't spend in January I don't think...
Better keep drinking.
The Norwich way to me means playing good football but end up being a mediocre team in a league which I personally despise. Today on my lunch break I thought I'd have a look at the PinkUn on one the articles in the comments section some spineless weasel wrote I don't care if Norwich win so long as they entertain me, that person wants a slap, yes we are in desperate need of attractive football but that's not much good if we don't have the winning mentality to pick up points. The number one thing I detest about the club is it's lack of ambition, it'll do brilliantly then when the wheels fall of wagon it'll do something completely ridiculous and if all fails it's totally acceptable to be mediocre.
On my comments concerning the youth team, yes it was assumption and there is no fact in what I said but it's one of a number of concerns I have about Neil Adams running this club, the way I see it bringing some of the youth team into the main ranks would be fulfilling his legacy and when you have success at a certain level that can breed complacently in some individuals, by all means I don't want the youth team to fail but I'd rather see them develop in season long loan contracts and get a proper run of games. I really hope I'm wrong but if we're in a diabolical state by the end of September then I won't have the same patience I showed towards Hughton.
On my comments concerning the youth team, yes it was assumption and there is no fact in what I said but it's one of a number of concerns I have about Neil Adams running this club, the way I see it bringing some of the youth team into the main ranks would be fulfilling his legacy and when you have success at a certain level that can breed complacently in some individuals, by all means I don't want the youth team to fail but I'd rather see them develop in season long loan contracts and get a proper run of games. I really hope I'm wrong but if we're in a diabolical state by the end of September then I won't have the same patience I showed towards Hughton.
This will sound really cynical - and it's not designed to, but if NA does nurture 'his' youth team players and stream some through to the first team, it will continue the "prudence" ethos that seems to be 'the Norwich way' mantra.
(Bowkett mentioned the 'p' word in a podcast last week)
(Bowkett mentioned the 'p' word in a podcast last week)
This person obviously does care if City lose or win so I wouldn't take it too literally.
I do agree with the mentality, its always been that way.
The fans are partly to blame, you ask on these boards and hardly any would like a wealthy benefactor, they would rather scrape the barrel with a dim witted cook than have an Ibramovich or oil sheik here paying for everything. ManCity were not a massive club, neither Chelsea, they were big but never at the top year in year out.
The fans want a family club, not a successful one.