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Article: Liverpool v Saints Match Thread | Southampton FC, Football

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by lamby, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. pass the football

    pass the football Well-Known Member

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    We failed to win any of our last 6 games last season and only scored 3 goals in that time so it's probably fair to say that none of our strikers were tearing defences apart!
     
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  2. saintlyhero

    saintlyhero Well-Known Member

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    Interesting debate to be had around Lambert, whilst I agree that Davis or even Ramirez would help bridge the gap from defence to attack from a passing basis and would plug that problem, what problems will arise without Lambert?

    Perhaps we will put him on the bench, but all previous attempts at not starting Rickie have failed.

    Obviously Rickie has no pace but how often do you see an attack slow down because of him?
    For me more of our attacks lose momentum due players holding on to the ball for too long or not seeing that killer pass.
     
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  3. Jose Fonte baby

    Jose Fonte baby Well-Known Member

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    Lambert has 5 in 16 under MP (last season). 2 free-kicks, 3 non-set piece goals. That isn't that bad actually, but his performances weren't that good.
     
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  4. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    I don't get this argument about Rickie scoring from dead balls...a large percentage of Le Tiss's goals were from free kicks and penalties, that didn't cheapen his worth to the team. Scoring from penalties and free kicks is an art in itself and I for one am grateful that we have somebody as proficient as Rickie taking them. We probably wouldn't have beaten Chelsea and Liverpool if it hadn't have been for his free kick goals and we would've certainly gone down without his overall goal tally last season.
     
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  5. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing about Rickie's form or goalscoring achievements since Pochettino came in but I would forget aobut last season when he was carrying a back injury (which would inhibit many of Rickie's strengths) and concentrate on this season.

    So this season:
    He has no goals from open play but has played OK in the role that he asked to play.

    Compared to Osvaldo who..................probably similar to the above assessment of Rickie.

    So I am purely questioning why drop him for not scoring when Osvaldo hasn't scored. Don't think you can say either has played better or worse than each other after all we (the fans) may think Rickie is not doing the business when he is doing to a tee what the manager has asked him to do. How do we know that he isn't doing the job that Pochettino has asked him to do perfectly?

    I disagree with him slowing attacks down. On quick attacks he peels off to the left normally and the likes of Morgan, Adam, Clyne etc support at speed. He is holding the ball in those scenarios. I would much rather he was in the side than Osvaldo because I think over the season he will score as many if not more than Osvaldo from the same minutes but I think he will create or help to create much more. After all we have seen him do so for years. He is much more important than just a goalscorer.

    I'm not sure that our forward line are to blame for slowing attacks down. Our full backs (obviously under orders) more often than not get into a crossing position and then pass the ball backward or sideways. We don't seem to cross much. It must be a tactic but it is a bit like a 'project barcelona' where the ball is pinged left to right to left to right for 5 minutes without ever trying the final ball or losing it before we do so. Often Lambert is coming out of the box on these occasions, when he was in a good position for the cross.

    A few more crosses in that situation, a few more 1 2s quickly around the area and we would get more chances. Remember all those 1-2s involving Lambert and Lallana pre-Pochettino? Where have they gone? Probably dropped in favour of passing it sideways again to keep possession.

    It's a tough call but until Osvaldo scores or has a major game there is no way Rickie should be 'dropped' for him. Rickie has proven what he can do. His team mates know where he is and what he is going to do without having to look up. Rest him if you think it would benefit him, why not. no problem with that but there's no way anyone can say Osvaldo should be in there instead on merit.

    As other posters above say I am a big fan of Davis. I think he has so much more creativity and drive to his game than most give him credit for. He is much more of an influence on the game than Ramirez and the play is faster when Davis is in that position. Much more energy, Much more fight. Could go on :)
     
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  6. rabbitspectrum

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    Rickie has slowed our attacks down but on occassions he has acted as the initial outlet for a counterattack or quick passing/dribbling movement quite well. He also offers a plan b. Davis looks great when he drives forward with the ball and is looking for that forward pass as he did on Saturday and he also while not as effective looked to be getting the ball forward when he came on earlier in the season, plus he by all accounts played bery well against barnsley. If he continues to play like this he will force his way into the team however for much of last season when there wasn't obvious space in front of him he was a major factor in the backwards sideways pedestrian movement of the ball and I would caution against playing him when we need to score.

    Even when there was space in front of him Davis wan't anywhere near direct or fast enough with his ball movement last season and perhaps he has changed this. One good cameo and a good league cup game are hardly conclusive in fact they could be quite misleading.
     
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  7. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    Have you not thought that he might have been playing to a set of instructions..? He's now playing to a different set in which he gets a chance to shine. As said before, Davis does, and has done in the past, an awful lot of the back up donkey work, which often doesn't involve possession of the ball. When he came on against Liverpool, he was being much more pro-active. Similar, but not as dominant, as he was against Barnsley. I expect him to play 90 minutes against Bristol City and provide a similar performance.
     
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  8. rabbitspectrum

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    Fair point, as I said if he continues to play with this more attacking attitude I think he will be an excellent option for us although I don't think he has done enough to start ahead of Lambert and he has played so little that it is hard to judge the extent to which he has improved.

    I watched him closely last season and his work off the ball is for some reason rated highly but I saw nothing to suggest he was particularly proficient at harrassing the opposition in fact ramirez averaged more interceptions, 1.6 than davis 1.5. In fairness his tackle count was quite high at 1.8 and he does put the effort in. Statistics are hardly a good way to judge a player but they can point towards a strength or weakness, when I watched davis last season he didn't get close enough to the player, something that we were guilty of under adkins, but davis did it under pochettino as well and I felt he wasn't applying as much pressure on the ball as he could.
     
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  9. benditlikeabanana

    benditlikeabanana Well-Known Member

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    Just noticed it was Morgans 200th game for us, sorry if mentioned before :emoticon-0137-clapp
     
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