BTW good post OP, looking forward to your write up on Keke Rosberg next=P
Next up is ... Maybe because I am black guy...
Article: Jenson Button - The Story | Formula One
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Next up is ... Maybe because I am black guy...
If Ferrari believe someone else can do a better job, they won't offer Massa a new contract. It doesn't mean Alonso is Ferrari's Championship focus.
That's not how Ferrari operate. Perhaps you should watch the season more carefully, LewisWDC.
Well that's how I see it. And regarding to team orders, I mean some time not all of the time. Anyway with Ferrari being off the pace even McLaren quicker it it would be stupid to go to Ferrari when they struggle to warm up there tyres.
Red Bull have used team orders more than Ferrari this season. And if Button went to Ferrari it would be next year not this year
.Red Bull have used team orders more than Ferrari this season. And if Button went to Ferrari it would be next year not this year
I know that but at least it wasn't for the race win like Germany 2010
Oh I see. Sorry, I must have misinterpreted "every occasion".
The current situation with McLaren and Ferrari is irrelevant, unless you were implying that he'd be move to Ferrari at some point in 2011.
I know that but at least it wasn't for the race win like Germany 2010
Legalities aside, the Red Bull use of team orders at Silverstone 2011 was worse than the Ferrari use at Germany 2010.
You are joking right? In 2010 team orders were banned and in 2011 were allowed, along with that it was for 2nd place not the win the Red Bulls were fighting over more so than my previous point as you said the legal side of things.
Ferrari used them to put the faster driver on track in front of the slower driver on track. Red Bull used them to keep the faster driver on track behind the slower driver on track. Which one of those is fairer? Hmmm.
So what the point was Fernando couldn't overtake Felipe on the track so he used the team to get through. After Turkey 2010 I can understand Red Bull's system to control it's drivers, a little bit more than Ferrari. But also I hate team orders and drivers that try and use them to gain position on the track.
So what you are saying, it is ok for Red Bull to use team orders to stop their cars crashing and it is not ok for Ferrari to do the same?
In my opinion Ferrari made the right decision to use team orders and they were justified in doing so after Alonso had a shot at the title. Red Bull just used them to protect Vettel when he did not even need protecting.
So what you are saying, it is ok for Red Bull to use team orders to stop their cars crashing and it is not ok for Ferrari to do the same?
In my opinion Ferrari made the right decision to use team orders and they were justified in doing so after Alonso had a shot at the title. Red Bull just used them to protect Vettel when he did not even need protecting.
No I don't mean that. So you think it's right for Fernando to get waved through because the simple fact is he could not overtake Felipe the fair way?
I hate team orders, let me get that straight. But the way Ferrari did that upset the fans, annoyed Felipe and silenced Fernando when there was outrage. I was Angry when Red Bull told Webber to maintain the gap, but at least if anything, it was not for the race win. But still what Red Bull did was unacceptable. But Ferrari have a history of it, and they always say F1 is not F1 without Ferrari, I disagree, they always threaten to leave so let them if they get angry when they take advantage of us.
All F1 teams use team orders, it is part of racing, if you think some teams do not do it or it is not 'proper racing' then you are being a bit naive and idealistic. When Ferrari were using them with Schumacher do you know what Mclaren were doing? Using team order as well.
I believe that team orders are acceptable because they are sometimes essential for teams and drivers to clinch championships
and i agree that red bull at silverstone was absolutely the right thing to do
i also believe what ferrari did at germany would have been the right thing to do had team orders been legal in 2010.
but they werent and it was entirely the wrong thing to do.
teams should respect the sports rules
and i agree that red bull at silverstone was absolutely the right thing to do
i also believe what ferrari did at germany would have been the right thing to do had team orders been legal in 2010.
but they werent and it was entirely the wrong thing to do.
teams should respect the sports rules
Vettel's race had been compromised by Webber's slow first stint, they left him out on old inters for an extra lap so Webber could stay ahead of Alonso, Vettel lost five seconds because of this. Then after a pitstop error he came out behind Hamilton (which he wouldn't have done if they hadn't given Webber preference at the first round of stops) and lost about another 15 seconds. Webber's slow pace potentially cost the team a victory, if he wants the right to fight Vettel he should keep pace with him, by rights Vettel should've been 20 seconds further up the road so Webber can hardly have any complaints at being told not attack his teammate and risk 33 points when he's already cost the team the chance to win.
Vettel may have been compromised a bit to keep Webber ahead of Alonso but it was not Webber who screwed up Vettel's second pitstop or Webber who could not get passed Hamilton. Yes you could argue that the initial decision to pit Webber first contributed to Vettel getting stuck behind Hamilton, but so did the Red Bull pitcrew and Vettel himself. It just seems like a bit of a rationalisation from Red Bull.
I thought the whole idea of racing was to win or beat another driver and if nobody has ever noticed, sometimes that means affecting another drivers strategy by preventing them from running at a faster pace - so to say Webber slowed Vettle down, so fukin what - thats racing? If he was that slow then Vettle should have just passed his slower and "Obviously Inferrior" teammate!!!!!!!!!!!! Germany 2010 was a disgrace and its only merit was that Alonso was still potentially in with a shout of the WDC - Silverstone 2011 was a disgrace because if Webber had have overtaken Vettle, it would have made a 3 point difference to Vettle's already unasailable lead. So if RB were so worried about their drivers inability to race each, then why didnt they inform Vettle that Webber was faster and for the sake of 3 points, let the faster driver through? Or maybe they didnt have the confidence that Vettle could make that decession for himself?
Anyway, I thought the thread was about JB?
Anyway, I thought the thread was about JB?
Vettel was never behind Webber, it was Webber who couldn't pass. Vettel's race was compromised because Red Bull favoured Webber at the the first round of pitstops to keep him ahead of Alonso and Vettel lost a chunk of time because of it.