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Article: England v Wales | Football

Discussion in 'Wales' started by Leeeeon, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Swamp

    Swamp Well-Known Member

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    your being harsh on tosh. for most of his reign we were in the top 60 if my memory serves me. still sh*t but not 117th sh*t <ok>

    on that performance we should be higher, but when was the last time before the last 2 games that you can say we have played well?
     
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  2. When Swans are flying

    When Swans are flying Well-Known Member

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    If nothing else, John Toshack should be given credit for putting Flynn in charge of all the kids!!

    We had no proper structure at youth level for the future of Welsh football, he could see that......

    Sooner or later we had to reap the rewards, maybe it's just started!!
     
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  3. Swamp

    Swamp Well-Known Member

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    absolutely. at the time of tosh's sacking i said on the old 606 i thought there was no point sacking someone when there didnt seem to be any replacements of equal or better quality. with international management that you have to work with what you've got - you cant go out and buy new players, so it didnt matter if we had fergie or guardiola in charge, we still would have been the same.

    i respect tosh for what he's done in the game.
     
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  4. SussexBlueBird

    SussexBlueBird Active Member

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    Thought Ledley was anonymous for much of the game, Taylor looks a great prospect and I also think Parkie has been sending Williams a load of pies lol
     
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  5. VETCHETARIAN

    VETCHETARIAN Active Member

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    "I respect Tosh for what he's done in the game".

    Well said Swamp. There are some on this forum who constantly criticise Toshack,and they have done absolutely NOTHING for the game.
     
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  6. Scottswan

    Scottswan Active Member

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    Agreed Vetch. I've always been a big fan of Toshack, and I'll always maintain that, upsetting a few Welsh primadonnas aside, he did as good a job as he could for Wales and did a lot of work which will stand us in good stead in the future.
     
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  7. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

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    Lets be honest here Ashley Williams is overrated and championship level (at best).

    He's better than James Collins granted but until Wales find a decent centre back pairing (Blake is not a centre back and had a one off inspirational game last night) and a pair of forwards who can score goals then Wales will still lag well down the order.

    Earnshaw is now about ready to drop back to the lower leagues; I fear for City if we have to rely on him all season.
    Morrison is so out of his depth at international (and Premier League) it is frightening.

    Not having a snipe at our swansea players but where were the much vaunteed Taylor & Williams for England's goal? Taylor was out of position and Williams gave Young too much room.

    IMO our best 11 players would do well against most middle tier international teams, but will never beat the top teams simply due to the lack of depth - it's always been the same right back for me to the ealry 1970's. Some world class players from Toshack, Ron Davies, Mike England through to the likes of Rush, Radcliffe, Hughes and now Bale and Ramsey.

    Still mightily impressed by the performances last night from eg Gunter, Collison, Ramsey etc......
     
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  8. tommylion

    tommylion Active Member

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    1199!
     
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  9. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    well done.
    not having seen the game or a review i have no idea how either team played.
    did wales play well or were england ****.
    i thought you would lose but the scoreline suggests you played well
    gotta be happy with 1-0
    can you lot still make the euros
     
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  10. Leeeeon

    Leeeeon Member

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    Brilliant performance by Wales. Controlled the game for long periods (the whole second half) and defended well, apart from the goal. Gutted for Earnie, shocking miss. I think we deserved to win the game, and if the midfield had got a bit closer to Morison in the first half, I think we could have scored. Gives me hope for next qualifying campaign
     
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  11. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

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    All credit to Speed and the players. A great performance. Apart from the loss of concentration for their goal I thought the whole back 4 were excellent with special mention for Gunter and Darcy (he has given Malky some selection headaches for Saturday). Hennessey played well and most of the midfield ran their nuts off with Rambo and Bale showing their class at times. However, I agree with others that Ledley was anonymous and Morrison out of his depth although he worked hard with little support first half.

    With reference to a previous question (partly), what was our ranking position when Sparky left and what was the position when Toshack left? I don't know the specifics but I guess there was something of a tumble.

    Also,I believe the rankings are assessed on backdated results. Okay, Speed has only won 2 out of 8 or 9, but the rankings also include results from the latter part of Toshack's dire reign.

    And Vetch, I for one will not have a welcome mat out for Toshack if the Macedonia game is at CCS, whther he is a Cardiff lad and ex-well thought of City player. He was a boring, pig headed, self righteous manager who lived off his past glories and lacked (in his time with Wales) any current tactical, man management or motivational skills. He has a lot of responsibility for our current ranking and Speed is, at last, starting to turn things around.
     
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  12. BrizzleBluebird

    BrizzleBluebird Well-Known Member

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    have to say, overall we performed admirably. the back 4 were pretty solid throughout, Gunter had a good game as did Darcy and Williams. Taylor was excellent for most of the game but did show a few lapses which are most likely down to inexperience more than anything and on the face of it he will go on to be a great Welsh player.

    Midfield was pretty good overall, Crofts and Collison (good to see him officially capped) were solid throughout, Bale was good and our best player probably but needs to learn he can't do it all on his own. Rambo was steady but am I the only one who thought his passing was a bit wasteful at times and that he pulled out of a few challenges?

    Morrison worked hard but had no service and does look out of his depth but we have no-one else to adequately fill the role unfortunatley... and Earnie.... aaaargh... 9 times out of 10 that's hitting the net... I just hope he finds his shooting boots soon.

    Hate to say it but Ledley was the worst player on the pitch last night and just showed how badly we missed Bellamy.

    Still, very encouraging, we are a young side now that should grow together and our qualifying group isn't as bad as it could have been for the world cup so we may well reap some reward then....
     
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  13. VETCHETARIAN

    VETCHETARIAN Active Member

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    Bluefrom Bridgend.

    Re--Toshack,who according to you,"lived off his past glories".

    Well,he did have them to "live off",unlike your goodself,who,I suspect, has NO "past glories" to "live off".
     
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  14. When Swans are flying

    When Swans are flying Well-Known Member

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    Considering what happened last night (off the pitch), is there really any need for little disagreements?? Leave it for another day chaps, surely??!! Totally sickened what happened with the poor fan losing his life, football doesn't seem to matter at this time.....
     
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  15. ninian opinion

    ninian opinion Well-Known Member

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    Ledley was forced out to the wing. He is not a winger. He did all he could have done out of position. IMO some City fans have it in for him cos he left to go to Celtic. Where was taylor for the goal eh? Why was Leldey having to try to do his job? He is an integral part of Wales future, the number of tackles he makes and he never wastes a pass.
     
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  16. Swamp

    Swamp Well-Known Member

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    yea, i think the stick he's getting from certain people is over the top to say the least. apart from having an excellent track record built up over 30 years of management both in wales and abroad, he has rebuilt the ageing squad of players he inherited and blooded in plenty of players without ever having everyone fit and playing in the squad. how unlucky was he to lose ramsey, the first name on the team sheet for a start? and how on earth can he be expected to maintain the performances under sparky when the likes of giggs, speed and hartson were bound to retire soon during his reign anyway?

    i've met him in roath about 2 years ago, he's a great fellow too. i must say in real life i've never seen a football manager so fat and he's so tanned he might be mistaked for an indian man <ok>

    i think the press (national) are being harsh on england. they controlled the majority of the game, but too much emphasis has been put on 4th vs 117th. its obvious that wales arent 117th and england not 4th. in the first half england dominated, second half less so in a nutshell.

    he was anonymous. him moving to celtic is nothing to do with that. i hate losing to swansea but when the likes of williams and taylor pull on the red shirt they get my support the same as any other welsh player. for a while you wouldnt have even known he was on the pitch! this isnt just this match, it was the same against montenegro aswell. if we had someone to replace him i would do so.
     
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  17. Blue Prophet

    Blue Prophet Active Member

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    I thought it was a good over all performance, and felt we deserved at least a draw on the second half performance, and could have pinched it, unfair to overcriticise any player on a decent team performance, although Williams was badly caught out for the England goal, and Earnie missed a chance that he would usually have buried. Ramsey was rightly IMO given MOM, although Bale must have run him close, despite being double teamed by the England defenders. A lot of the time Bale was our main creative attacking outlet, and whilst he did excellently considering the attention he received, by nullyfying him well it undid a lot of the Welsh good work, I can't help thinking if an unlucky Bellamy had played it would have given Wales another outlet and as well as his attacking threat he would have created more space for the likes of Bale and Ramsey, IMO he would have tipped the balance in what was a very tight game, with a bit of luck we could have won it, but were very unlucky not to come away with a point. The FIFA rankings are blatantly nonsense........113 places between those two sides I doubt it, which reninds me has anyone else noticed the absence of the Numpties who were forecasting 10 - 0 or scores around that mark?
     
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  18. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    IT WAS NOT TAYLOR'S FAULT FOR THE GOAL.
    The tactic all night (am I the only one who noticed this?) was for Bale to switch to right-back and Ledley to left-back when England had the ball and were attacking. This was so Gunter and Taylor could help out the centre-halfs by picking up the England runners.
    This worked out beautifully for Speed and Wales, but for the goal Ledley shows Downing outside and then inexplicably twists to the right as if Downing were going inside him.....he should have been leading with his left and trying to block the cross.
    Am not blaming the entire result on Ledley but it was HIS mistake and he did not play well....I can't remember the last time he did (don't think the SPL is the best place for his and Matthews' development, it's League 1 football if we are honest isn't it?).

    Overall I was very happy with that level of performance and was impressed by Speed for the first time....his tactics really did work a treat....and we earnt AT LEAST a draw, but big games turn on moments and Ledley + Earnshaw had two big moments and fluffed their lines.
    Despite being pleased with Speed's set up I couldn't understand why he didn't take Ledley off for Robson-Kanu (Perhaps switching wing with Bale) and Crofts off for Joe Allen at about the 60 minute mark.
     
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  19. BrizzleBluebird

    BrizzleBluebird Well-Known Member

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    Hey Nin, don't confuse my post with a rant against Ledley, i've got absolutely nothing against the lad and consider him one of our own still....

    You may be right about him beingout on the wing and that not being his best position (although he did play there for us for a few seasons), however I still felt he could have had a bigger impact on the game than he did and seemed a little off the pace (in my opinion).

    Regarding the goal, i would actually blame Ledley (to a point) as he let Downing beat him too easily and Taylor was actually getting back from a forward run and was just inside the edge of the box (it was very much as Terrorwit states above).

    Overall I thought Taylor was good and just showed the odd lapse which most players of young age do...

    maybe I'm being harsh on Ledley but I just didn't think he looked to great overall.
     
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  20. BluefromBridgend

    BluefromBridgend Well-Known Member

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    Vetch

    I'm a paying customer and supporter of Wales. In that capacity I am entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

    The difference is I gave an opinion on Toshack only whose football life is well known and didn't resort to personal insults as you have. You don't know me, you don't know what I have achieved in my life as I don't broadcast my achievements so don't presume to make any comments about me. <ok>

    For Swansea and in Spain Toshack had success albeit some time ago, for Wales Toshack was a rubbish manager and I rue the day he was appointed. And I said so at the time.
     
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