That is a major concern Balham. That's why a lot of the time Arsenal try to offload a few players each summer. That, again, in a way, is down to poor running. They wanted parity between the top players & upcoming ones. That didn't work at all. The squad players are paid too much & can't be moved on (Denilson, Squil, Bendy), while the top players know they're better & don't want to be paid the same (RvP, Theo, and the system fails. There should be a sliding scale to provide incentive, and the younger players should be paid a lot less. In addition, if Spurs can afford players every summer, while running self-sufficiently with a smaller stadium, and less commercial revenue, there is a grievous problem with the club. The only acceptable reason is Arsenal are maintaining top4 while paying off ALL debt ahead of schedule, and will the have mammoth amounts of cash available. Otherwise, grievous mismanagement and overstaffing seem to be to blame. Thank you for your reply Toledo.
I couldn't agree with you more Bonstar, there is something just not right with the logic of what is happening. It would of course help if the board would make it clear what the plan is. Frankly I find it bizarre that, according to Gazidis, Wenger has a pot full of money at his disposal. However it can't be used because of the salary implications. That is just totally illogical. I also don't like the way that some on this forum, toe the party line so much that any dissent is classed as an insult to the club.
What a deft bit of sidestepping Balham. Address the issues stated rather than argue semantics. You're talking nonsense.
What do you mean by "toe the party line".It case you hadn't noticed this is a football forum not a blog for a political party
Here's Toledo's little helper. Let me explain what the issue seems to be, According to ToledoTrumpton, the club has money to spend on transfers, but it can't buy anyone because we couldn't afford their wages. Here's a thought instead of spending 20 mill on a player spend 10 mill on the player and use the rest to pay his salary. Where is the nonsense in that? I'm sure that you will find some.
I'm not sure if I'm slow on the uptake here, but were you not the one complaining about buying cut priced players right at the start of this whole thread? I'm certain that was you. Isn't that strategy the one Wenger is using now?
So you pull TT up for saying about the wages thing. Personally, the point I think he was trying to make, is that there is a budget which limits how much the club can spend on wages. Obviously this is also linked in with transfer funds. Yet you have stated on more than one occasion that you believe: "more likely is we are contributing even more to Stan's already obscene wealth." Yet there is absolutely no evidence of this. No money has been taken out of the club by Kroenke. You also state that he has been "asset stripping" the club, again if he is taking no money out of the club, I see no evidence of this. It would appear to me, that you obviously do not like the way the club is being run, yet profess to being astute at business. I find this rather odd behaviour for someone who claims to be the age that you must be if you played semi-pro in the 70's.
No money leaves the club (at present), so the problems with cash flow are internal. I'd like to thank people for the (mainly) mature way this discussion has progressed. It seems to me the major crux is: The club posts a post-tax operating PROFIT year-on-year AFTER debt payments, and staffing costs, and wages, and also posts a profit on Transfers almost every year. So where has this money, and the property development money gone? Surely this money can be / should be used for Transfers & Wages?
I am saying that the cost of changing our salary structure is prohibitive. You cannot pay RvP 150k/week and the next highest 80K/week. You cant offer Dempsey/Dembele 80K/week to sit on the bench as a backup. You will have a very unhappy team. We are not paying off the debt ahead of schedule. There are penalties for doing so, and we don't want to incur them. I don't think that you will find that the young players are being paid outrageously large salaries. The players that are most contentious are those that made over 100/150 appearances for the team. Almunia (although he has left now), Bendtner, Denilson and Djourou. Their salary was raised to reflect that they were first team material, and then they slipped down the pecking order again. But again, I point out to you the gulf beteween ourselves and Chelsea/Manchester City. We are quibbling about tens of millions, and the gap is in hundreds of millions.
Look at it this way we had a bid accepted for Mata along with Chelsea last season but were blown out of the water in terms of wages. Say we buy a player for £30mn (someone really WC) we will have to pay a minimum of £100k a week more likely £150k a week. Say they sign a 5 year contract that is an extra commitment of £40mn over that period not to mention a signing on bonus of 3-5mn. Not to mention if they sign a new deal after 2-3 years we will have to pay them even more and another signing bonus. So in reality a 30mn pound player can cost 40-60mn more in terms of wages over the next 5 years. Not to mention that when it comes to resigning contracts of existing players they will want a lot more than what they would have asked for pre big signing. Vermalen might ask for 125k instead of 100k walcott expects 100k instead of 80k, etc. Also every new player we sign will demand more than they originally wanted. Buying a player for a big sum means that other clubs can demand more from us. But paying 1 player a high wage can lopside all our finances. I do agree that we arguably play squad players too high such as Bendtner, Djourrou, Denislson because that was the we had a plan to sign young players on long term contracts 5-8 years so had to pay a bit extra. On the Tottenham comparism you should realise they have a very strict wage structure I believe they broke it for Gareth Bale and were willing to break it for Modric but there best players are on £50k~. They do a lot of in and out high value transfers which helps balance the books and lets not forget they are a profitable and well run club. Also this we are making Kronke richer is stupid if you think money is being taken out of the club. It is still a publicly listed company if you have 10 grand spare you can go and buy a share. The only way to take money out is through Dividends and Arsenal have never issued one. The only way he is getting richer is if Arsenals stock value rises then his wealth rises on paper - but unless he sells no actual profit. Also he overpaid on the shares he got so arguably he is sitting on a small loss.
It is uncannily familiar that someone equates having their opinion countered, with being accused of insulting the club. Nobody has said that at all - they have simply offered a counter opinion.
Piskie, I don't have a problem with the difference of opinion, it is when people accuse the club of fraud, say our players are crap, and suggest Wenger is incompetent, or "doesn't want to win" that I start feeling my hackles rise. We actually have a very good board compared to Liverpool and Manchester United, even Spurs. They stay out of the way, give the manager the rules and he gets on with it. The rules are made, albeit slightly conservatively, but there is no evidence to suggest that an extra 20-50M is going to make a significant difference. The mistake people make is thinking that Arsenal can break their wage structure for a player at any level. Just because we can afford a player, doesn't mean we can sign him.
There's never been a problem with difference of opinion on this forum. Some people wanted to make an issue out of it, but it was simply down to the fact that they didn't like the responses they got. They weren't strong enough to deal with the debate. As for Arsenal's finances. It's blindingly obvious that we're a club that don't throw money at the wall in a 'see what sticks' approach like Chelsea and City do. We may have a £150m surplus, but that doesn't mean we should piss it all up the wall. That money is to service the club and prevent us from going into unsustainable debt. Yet some people want to use that as a stick to bash the players, manager, CEO, Chairman, tealady ect etc . . .
