Match Day Thread Arsenal vs Watford - Matchthread

**** off. Xhaka is a sack of ****e and Iwobi...... well I'm willing to be wrong on him but still think he's ****e and Emery will be prioritising a wing forward who's a goal threat and a CB to partner Papa Lazarou (although I'm hoping Holding gets a fair crack at the whip).

 

Why are you talking about pre-season? I don't really care how he was winning games in pre-season.

You cannot sit there and tell me that we would get away with defending like we have done in the last two league games against any of the top 5 sides.

Watford and Everton, due to a mixture of good goalkeeping and profligacy in front of goal, were both unlucky to have not got something in their matches against us. The statistics would show you this, too.

Frankly, if you're not concerned by how regularly teams are getting in behind our defence, I don't know what planet you're living on.

Thankfully, we have some quality players on our bench and we have two of the most lethal attacking players in the league in our team, alongside one of the world's best playmakers. These players alone can make a decisive difference to a result even when we're not playing well. We were able to punish these teams for not taking the copious chances they've had as a consequence. We didn't have a shot on target in the second half until Iwobi came and started giving us a different dimension to the way we were playing.

As for Emery's tactical switches, whilst I acknowledge that he is more proactive than Wenger ever was, he has still been guilty of questionable team selections and formations at the beginning of matches.

Putting Ozil on the flanks to accommodate Ramsey in the CAM position was ridiculous. It's wasn't just ridiculous because of the whole contract saga, it's the fact he hasn't performed well in any of the matches he's featured in this season. He was ineffective, which subsequently led to Ozil also being ineffective. Xhaka has started to perform better alongside Torreira, but it's very questionable whether he should have even been in the team for as long as he has been. Aubameyang on the left was ineffective again. Unsurprisingly. We are shoehorning him into the team when he doesn't look comfortable in that position.

Like I said - I am happy we are winning and we are winning without playing that well. But I am expecting the performances to pick up over the next month or so.

 

and a good afternoon to you too

 

Agree those are probably the key areas we will be addressing.

I wanna see a Dembele(unlikley), Coeman, Bailey type signing and a TOP proper sized quality centreback.

I also think Guendousi's emergence has made Ramseys position less stable. We are not currently bringing in that extra champions league money and the guy is asking for TOP wages (reportedly the same as Ozil). He probably does'nt do enough to deserve that kind of money.

 

Sell Ramsey in January or bench him for the rest of the season - I hate our players running their contracts down

 

I'm not saying we hav'nt been making mistakes. Defensively there is clearly still alot of work to do.

Why would I not talk about Pre-Season? I'm talking about what we have seen from Emery so far... and there are clear patterns.

I think Emery deserves alot of credit for the fact he constantly seems to make effective tactical adjustments. He's winning games with positional shifts and substitutions - there's no luck in that . We are already looking alot more efficient in front of goal. If we improve defensively which we more than likley will - things are looking up.

 

If you're acknowledging there's still a lot of work to do, and you acknowledge we have been making mistakes, then I don't see why you were disagreeing with my point about us being somewhat fortunate in the last two league matches.

But it's arbitrary. Pre-season matches are times for experimentation and to get players to match fitness, it is no indication of how the season is going to go or how a team will do when the season starts. I still remember when van Gaal first arrived at Man United, they won all of their pre-season games - including beating Real Madrid 3-1 in a tournament - yet we all saw what ended up happening there.

So whatever we did in pre-season shouldn't be factored in when we're talking about our current performances since the Prem started again.

I agree that we look more efficient in front of goal, and a lot more menacing in attack (generally), but that doesn't mean his tactics and team selections have been great. I am liking that he will respond to what's happening in a game and make changes accordingly, rather than waiting until the 70th minute all the time a la Wenger.

However, in some cases, like at the weekend and against Everton, he makes life unnecessarily difficult for himself before the match has even begun with some of his player selections. He does aim to rectify things if he sees they're not panning out, but he is also the one that fields unbalanced teams to start with.

Depends on which way you want to look at it I suppose.

 

Well because you said we have been 'lucky'. I dont really think thats the case.

Against PSG, Lazio and Atletico we started the games slowly and came on in the second half. I mention pre-Season because the same pattern has been happening in the league. This is down to Emery.

I think his team selections on whole have been good. I would say the No.10 is probably the best position for Ramsey. (although I prefer Ozil in that position) But ultimately he inherited this side and we will see changes in team slection over the course of the the Season. He's still getting to know the side after all.

 

I don't see what there is to argue here. We have been lucky. We have been lucky that the opposition's finishing has been so poor that we've not conceded in the last two games. We have been lucky that our defensive frailties that have been repeatedly exposed hasn't cost us any points. We are lucky that when we've lost the ball playing it out from the back, players haven't taken advantage and capitalised.

Obviously, it's not our problem that other teams can't finish their chances, but it doesn't negate the fact that we've gotten away with some extremely dodgy moments.

Even if this was true, which I definitely do not think it is, then it's still not a good tactic. And I don't think it's by design, either. Football matches last 90 minutes. We can't keep relying on valiant second-half performances to win games. Especially if we get punished for poor defending in the first half. If you don't perform well over the entirety of the match, the chances of you winning are significantly reduced.

You will not be surprised to know that I would have to seriously disagree with you on his team selections being good. Mainly for the reasons I've already mentioned earlier in the thread.

Whichever way you look at it, I'm expecting things to improve from end of October/November time. At that point, he should 100% know what his best starting XI is.

 

As soon as Lacazette hit the ball goalward, regardless of how low-chance it was, the referee could not call the foul.

The referee has to ask, "If the ball went in, would it count?" Of course it would, so the player cant get the benefit of having a shot, and if he misses, getting another one from the penalty spot.

The commentators being complete Muppets concentrate on the diving, but it was the shot/cross that made the difference. Lacazette played the advantage and so it wasn't a penalty. Quite frankly, it wasn't honest, it was rather silly and unprofessional. These pros should be taught the rules.

And the thing to be learned from this situation, is don't take a wild shot after you have been fouled in the box, unless you have an excellent scoring chance, because any chance on goal, no matter how bad, it is going to be considered as "an advantage".

As far as the "Lucky stuff goes. I don't think we have given up anything like as many easy chances as we gave-up in games last year. All chances are not created equal. Teams are going to create at least a few chances every game. The best sides make sure that the chances they give up are few and not very high quality.

I couldn't say whether we have given up less chances than last year, but I definitely think the chances we have given up have generally been less easy to score from. Opposition players have had less time to shoot, less time to cross perfectly and had less unopposed headers. That has led to more missed chances.

 

Disagree. From the FA website:

ADVANTAGE

• allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds

Firstly, was the ref giving advantage or was he just an idiot who didn't think it was a foul? I can't be sure as I can't remember the clip exactly. But if he was playing advantage then it's clear that Lacazette's advantage does not ensue therefore he should stop play and give the foul and therefore penalty.

 

I've been a ref and there is a huge relief when the player takes the shot like that, because it takes the decision right out of your hands. You are right, he may have not given it, but as soon as Lacazette takes that poor excuse for a shot the referee was off the hook.

As far as your underlined section goes, a chance on goal is considered the highest form of an advantage, even if it is missed. That is the interpretation that referees are asked to follow. You may not agree with it, but that is the way it is.

 

Again disagree. If referees choose to interpret something incorrectly, that doesn't make it correct just because it's a ref doing it (professional or amateur). And to be clear I've also been an amateur ref too. If a ref takes a cop-out and says the decision has been taken out their hands then that also doesn't mean it's the correct decision.

http://hoofoot.com/?match=Arsenal_2_-_0_Watford_2018_09_29

Skip to 52 seconds.

At no point does Lacazette get an advantage from playing on. Him managing to get a miscued shot off when imbalanced is not him suddenly getting an advantage. If he hadn't have been fouled he would have had a shot on target with balanced footing so in that respect he's been disadvantaged. If we'd have had the foul called we would have had a penalty which again is a free shot with balanced footing and therefore not calling it as a foul and playing on is a disadvantage. Him staying on his feet in an imbalanced fashion disadvantages him in every possible way. If he'd gotten through and had a shot with balanced footing I'd agree that you can't bring it back as he'd genuinely been given an advantage from playing on. However, at no point do I see any advantage gained from Lacazette being honest enough to have stayed on his feet even though imbalanced.

 

Not trying to get on Emery's back as I'm expecting this season to be a feeler season but isn't it a little worrying how bad we were against Watford? He's had a fair few games and we still look dreadfully shaky at the back. Sarri in comparison has made Chelsea look really good and I think we have a team similar in quality.

The big question is why is it taking him so long to get our defence looking half decent at least? He's been fortunate to have inherited some great attacking players that have got us out of jail a few times. The game against Watford highlighted this the most.

 

I'm just telling you what we were told on the refereeing course. If you want to think it should be different then you can think what you like, but I'm telling you that is what ALL the referees do. If you are hoping it is different you are going to be sorely disappointed every time.

 

Hmmm but do we have a similar quality of team to Chelsea? I'm not so sure we do.

Kovacic, Jorginho and Kante is one of the best central midfields in the league; arguably the best central midfield in the league right now. So they trump us there.

Kepa and Leno, the jury is still out on both of them. But, with that being said, and based of what I've seen of Kepa so far, I'd rather have him over Cech.

Azpilcueta is better than Bellerin. All of their centre-backs are better than Mustafi. Sokratis has performed very well for us and I'd personally have him over Luiz, but that's just personal preference. Luiz has also done well since Sarri reinstated him. Monreal and Alonso is 50/50. Monreal can defend better, but I think Alonso is a better goal threat and offers more going forward, which is what you want from your full-backs in an attacking team, so even that one is also close.

Our forward options are a cut above theirs, but they have the best player in the league in Eden Hazard. He, alone, raises the levels of everyone else in their team.

In terms of overall balance and technical skill, I'd argue they have a more balanced starting 11 than we do. It is easier for their players to play a better brand of football than us and it's no surprise (to me) that they've been playing such aesthetically pleasing stuff.

If we want to start playing good football, we will need a few transfer windows to sort that out. We just don't have the personnel right now.

 

I would agree with Lazarus. Teams are pretty close IMO. Hazard is probably the best player in the league mind you so thats a big bonus.

Cech/Leno - Kepa. Jury is still out on Kepa. Cech is an all time great but.. he's past his best. 50/50 (Leno looks qualiy.)
Beller - Azip. Again hard to call it. I would take Bellerin. 50/50
Mustafi - Luiz. Just about anyone's better than Mustafi. Even sideshow Bob.
Sokratis - Rudiger. Sokratis has looked excellent since coming into the side.
Torreira - Jorginho. Again this is hard to call. I would personally go with Torreira.
Xhaka - Kante. Kante for sure.
Ramsey - Kovavcic. Im not sure about this one. Not seen enough of Kovavcic. He is however 24 and couldnt get into Real Madrids side.
Ozil - Hazard. Hazard is arguably best player in the league.
Aubamayang - William. Auba of course.
Lacazette - Giroud. This one already played out at Arsenal. Lacazette is better than Giroud. (still like the big guy though)

This comparisons are always gonna be opinion based.

 

Sorry Bear, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on some of these. I don't agree with some of the like-for-like comparisons you've tried to do as well.

Bellerin and Azpilcueta is not hard to call in any person's world. One of them has been underperforming for the last 2 years, the other has been one of the most consistent fullbacks in the league since he's arrived. It's not even close.

Sokratis and Rudiger is close, as Rudiger has started to look a lot more composed and assured since Sarri's come in. I would personally have Sokratis, but you can't dismiss Rudiger's quality.

Torreira and Jorginho are two different players fulfilling two different functions in their respective teams. The accurate comparison would be Torreira and Kante, to which Kante will always win, as impressive as Torreira has been.

Jorginho and Xhaka would be a better comparison, to which, again, there is no debate.

If we're basing it on this season, Kovacic is miles above Ramsey. Even I didn't realise he was that good. This is another that shouldn't be up for debate, Kovacic trumps Ramsey with ease. There's a really good article on him in The Independent which sums him up very well. Here: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...maurizio-sarri-real-madrid-loan-a8563166.html

Hazard > Everyone.

As for Aubameyang and Willian, again, not the right comparison. Aubameyang is not a winger and, despite being positioned there, hasn't looked comfortable at all. In fact, if we were going to pick between Willian and Aubameyang for a wide position, I would rather have Willian. Aubameyang is a striker and as a striker, he is definitely a cut above Morata/Giroud. Willian is probably better than most of our wide players, although it's no secret we are in need of a new winger.

 

Gonna have to disagree with you on all of that. You can match them up anyway you like. Ultimately we dont play the same formation - I have no idea why you are soo negative.

In terms of Bellerin - the guy has been underperforming but he's one of the quickest players on the planet, he's technically good and he's still quite young. I think in todays market he would sell for more Azpiliqueta (he has a higher ceiling) and he always seems to attract interest from the top clubs. Is he underperforming yes.. Is he the better player?.. Yeah I think so.

You would rather have WILLIAN than Aubmayang?!! Really?.. Well I think we are done. I persoanlly think Aubmayanag is the best player in our squad.

 

I'm not "soo negative", I'm pragmatic. I just don't agree with your assessments or the comparisons of each player that you've done.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on Bellerin. I think he is nowhere near Azpilcueta's level.

Read what I said properly. As a winger, I would prefer to have Willian over Aubameyang. That's because Aubameyang is not a winger. He is a striker being played out of position. As a striker, Aubameyang is one of the best in Europe. But a wide player he is not.