a) Links to prove this from all the commentators and pundits? b) Even if true, why is their opinion anymore valid than ours, given that both them and we are fully aware of the rulebook (well, actually, given the punditry and 'insight' into the Nani sending off against Madrid, it would appear many pundits actually don't know the rules) and can see exactly what happened from all conceivable angles? I can form my own opinions and draw my own conclusions... I don't need a pundit to tell me what I should be thinking. Pundits only job is to highlight and explain tactics and good play that may otherwise not be noticable to everyday fans. Although most pundits are useless at this (apart from a select few like Gary Neville, Lee Dixon etc).
When you use the same word word for both, yes. Anyway, as your use of the same word highlights, it's all part of the game so when I highlight your criticism of how they play, not once using the term "tactics", then it's covering both and you assumed it wasn't. What exactly was the behaviour that you had such a problem with anyway? I'm sure you know Arsenal players are hardly angels when it comes to following the rules and behaving on the pitch too.
The irony of all this is, of course, that Mikel Arteta (much as I rate him as a fantastic DM) is one of the worst in the league for tactical fouls like this... http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine...gest-foulers-premier-league-season-193908?p=3 http://hereisthecity.com/2013/04/10/the-premier-leagues-most-persistent-fouler-plays-for/ Naturally, that irony will be lost on you because I imagine that these stats are somehow biased. Or that most of his somehow aren't fouls. If so, what you will be forgetting is that part of what makes Arteta so good and your team play better when he's in it is his ability to break up play and produce a cynical challenge when necessary. Unfortunately, that's the modern game and you do it as much as anyone
I'm not defending Arteta in anyway and I don't rate him that highly either. But you've gone from posting up two bits of evidence (well really, it's the same bit of evidence on two different sites) showing that Arteta does a lot of fouls, to making a conclusion that a lot of those fouls must be tactical, niggly ones that stop opponents attacking. Neither of your links describe the type of fouls being carried out. So now you're just making stuff up. Also, where are links showing most of the commentators and pundits in the land stating it wasn't a penalty?
Consisteny niggly fouling, persistent time wasting for long periods when they were leading. Arsenal do this sometimes too which annoys me slightly. But if we do it, and then lose, you won't find me moaning on here two days after saying we've been hard done by. If you behave/play like that, you're going to make enemies. Being a knob on the pitch isn't a tactic... it's just being a knob.
You are really going to play that game? MotD has been quoted. The commentators have been mentioned. Garth Crooks et al on the bbc http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...crest-of-a-wave-to-beat-Norwich-City-3-1.html http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...s-gunners-cement-topfour-status-29195965.html http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ootball-news (Daily Express :: Football Feed) http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ty-1-late-goals-give-gunners-win-8571966.html http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/a-little-bit-of-history-repeated-228383.html But I'm sure you'll find an ad hominem argument against each of these, so we might as well ignore the weight of evidence... Err, do you really need this answering? Because they are far more likely (though admittedly not always) to be objective, or at least closer to it, than your heavily tinted specs.
The first piece of evidence is older than the second. Don't play straw man game again, you know exactly what Arteta is doing, so let's just drop that one, because you know it is true. There is a reason for the chant "same old Arsenal, always cheating" Links above, generally showing that people thought it was highly controversial - where there have been comments as to whether it was or wasn't a pen, these have all been mentioned and as you know, only Keown seems to have disagreed. I call that a majority. Find me a non-Arsenal pundit who thinks it was a penalty
I'm not playing any game... I haven't seen many pundit's responses to the incidents. And none of your links are to pundits saying that it wasn't a penalty. They're all just newspaper reports saying the penalty was a controversial incident. The only incident that was possibly given wrongly was the corner and your freekick for the goal. Both happen all the time in many games. And you still can't prove easily from replays whether either were the wrong or right call anyway. So you still only the opinions of Alan Hansen and David Moyes. And now you reckon Garth Crooks. So all in all, three people who are no more objective than I am.
Which was ad hominem and groundless, so not really a stong one. I'd love to know what you guys think is an objective view, because so far it appears to sit in two categories: (a) Arsenal fans' view (b) Everyone else (and each is individually attacked for some spurious reason or another) Show me your idea of objectivity, that would be great, because so far your arguments have simply been negating.
Norwich played typically of a small, **** and insignificant team that comes to the Emirates. Park the bus with fat British players that only know how to run around aimlessly and smash the ball as hard as they can at all times; and treat it like a rugby game because "Arsenal don't like it up 'em". All throughout the game Norwich were incredibly unsportsmanlike and in the end they got what they deserved. All that matters is that we have an extra 3 points on the board and Norwich slip closer to relegation, who could ask for better?
are you saying our players are of equal ability as Spurs? Actually, don't answer that... I'll get embarrassed
So now you've been shown that your evidence is not actually evidence, you're going down the route of, "yeah but you know what Arteta is doing"? And now your evidence that it wasn't a penalty is the discussion boxes underneath match reports that anyone can comment on?! Dear lord
We don't have to show you anything. Your view is just as biased as anyone else's. You're the one still on the Arsenal board moaning away, thinking that you're somehow the voice of objectivity and reason when you're anything but. You've been shown to have very little to no evidence at all of any of your points... indeed you just make up links between stats and conclusions. What it boils down to is you're still just moaning.
It is a game. It's the - find me lots of evidence game. I'm going to refute each of them, but not produce any evidence of my own. As I said above, the only commentators on the penalty I know of are: The match commentators MotD The rest of the bbc team The sky team Of that lot, most of them said it wasn't a penalty, only Keown said it was. That's a majority. Find me other pundits who are not Arsenal fans who say it was a penalty. Bit highlighted in bold - you see that's your mistake. None of the support Norwich or Arsenal, so, by definition, they are more objective than you. The only person in this interesting little discussion that has equivalent objectivity to you is me... Each of them have their faults. I could highlight countless times when Hansen has criticised us. Moyes hates us following our victory last month. The point is that they are almost unanimous - that is weight of evidence in and of itself. A weight of evidence that you simply don't have. The only evidence you have in your favour is the linesman. It's odd that none of you have mentioned it.
Keown is a very experienced and reasonable man but as a former Arsenal player his opinion is wrong ? Yet you reject any potential reasons for a bias by Hansen and Moyes. It makes me laugh that people like you hold up the motd pundits view as gospel, even though they are incredibly inconsistent and talk allot of rubbish each week. The BBC and their pundits often rule in favour of the underdog. Strange that the BBC bastions of truth that they are, often edit the highlights very selectively. No discussion of any of the incidents that did not go in Arsenal's favour for instance.
No, I am saying that they are a lesser team than us and still play with a bit of ambition from time to time. All this arguing back and forth is pointless. Sometimes refs give them, sometimes they don't. This time they did. I didn't see anyone being ungracious among the Arsenal fans until some of the Norwich lads started going on about cheats, bribery, plastics etc, etc, etc. NCFC feel cheated, AFC feel vindicated and the spuds & chavs are seizing upon an opportunity to use your pain to wum us. Nothing will change by the continuing moans and groans.
