I say this not out of bitterness nor because we lost yesterday, but because I've monitored and scrutinised Oliver's career more than most - forget the outrageous hype, he's actually a mediocre referee at best and probably a poor referee in fairness. The problem is though that other referees seem to buy into the SKY/PGMOL bullshit and are terrified to call him out when they're on VAR. Again, he's not the reason we lost yesterday, but it's getting to the point now that every decision he makes is never questioned because of his (undeserved) reputation. It has to stop.
Gabriel Jesus is a cheat. I quite liked him as a player but two incidents yesterday really hacked me off. One was the head injury, I thought he was really seriously injured the way he lay sprawled after contact with Tsimis arm. When it became clear that no card could be cheated he made a miraculous recovery and was mouthing off big time. Next the penalty. Minimal contact on his heel in a 50:50 ball with Thiago. Down like he was clobbered. Cheat got a penalty out of it. Not saying we deserved to win but Arsenal really we’re acting for a poor referee
Everyone on Twitter seems totally convinced it racist, but wasn't Gabriel (and Partey) a name mentioned over those rape arrest things back in June? Should be interesting to see what happens if that's what Hendo has said. Can't really believe the racism thing from him, no matter how angry he was. Seems even more bizarre (but could explain Bobby's expression) if he's called him a Brazillian so-and-so. But anyway, he is convicted in the court of social media (as was Bobby for not liking being rammed into the stand by Holgate when the Blueshite needed a bogus racism claim to dodge his deserved red card), and I expect the FA will sentence him to keep on playing in our OAP midfield.
Didn't Jesus go down holding the "wrong" foot for the penalty, his standing foot rather than the one with the minimal contact?
minor details. he's clearly given the ref a good picture of what happened with his massive flop and the images after clearly do show thiago made contact players cheat all the time. doesn't matter what part they hold or how they hold it. what matters is what picture does the ref see to make his call and oliver was clearly backed by a var image i'm shocked nobody called out saka for his face holding first half when actually he had no head contact at all. he was desperate to get tsimikas booked any way he could at times.
In fairness, didn't Mo get one like this exactly the same against West Ham a couple of seasons ago? I didn't expect the ref to give the pen for that contact (or in the Wellbeck one at Brighton in the same season), but he did in all three cases (the Brighton one by VAR iirc). I'm still pissed by the handball though, but as I've said, Oliver is a very, very poor referee who usually favours the home side. Preposterously overrated.
Amusing when they do that face-holding thing (we've got a few who do it too, tbf) that they then wiggle their jaw around as well and gurn for a few seconds after they get up - then as soon as the ball comes to them it's 100% forgotten. They're like a teenager feigning illness to get out of school who then get up later and are laughing and joshing about watching Netflix or something, then they suddenly realise you're watching them and they remember they're supposed to have a toothache or period pains or God knows what.
his hand never covered his face so whatever was said it should be fairly easy to lip read on both sides. "reading" body langauge as saka and firmino is a bit rich TBH. Surely if the likes of the rag or the daily mail could get henderson and nail him on this they'd have someone out today with verbatim of what was said. we all have to remember that henderson's "crusades" for taking the knee of whatever else the prem captains have done etc doesn't go down well with the types that raid above rags. taking down the "hypocrite" should be gold for them. ESP getting a picture of him lifting the prem beside a big heading saying racist.
I've said from the very outset that VAR is a waste of time (I think the idea that it works well in other countries is a myth, btw.) Refereeing decisions are subjective, and always will be. How can they be anything else? VAR simply removes the subjectivity to another place. I understand your argument that taking it away from the cauldron of the stadium should make it a less pressurised decision, but it's still down to the VAR ref's interpretation and/or personal prejudices. These things are human nature and will never change - no matter how hard we rail against them. It's not the technology's fault - it doesn't make the decisions. Even when it comes to offside, it's not precise enough to do the job asked of it, and the people who move the lines about to reach the conclusion that they want will always have the last say. Handball, what can you say? Exactly the same incidents are interpreted differently by different people - refs, pundits and fans included. There is no such thing as an objective opinion here. The only way to make it conclusive would be to say if it hits a hand it's a foul, regardless of any circumstance - VAR could at least help with that - but clearly this would be grossly unfair and I doubt anyone wants to see that. "Unnatural position" is a bloody joke, another quip rattled off by football authorities to try to give the impression they know what they're doing. It's perfectly natural for one's arms to be flailing all over the place when throwing yourself around. Having them clasped behind your back whilst defending is the silliest, most unnatural position imaginable. In this era of computer games it seems people expect there to be a programmed, definitive answer to everything but real life isn't like that. Bad decisions (according to our own points of view) are here to stay. We can moan about them all we like, but don't expect them to change much.
Jesus was "spark out" with people hauling him over like he was dead. now I am sorry but I have said this many times and got derision for it but if he is concussed or was unconscious for an time he should be subbed off. If he's faked it then he should he dealt with. he deffo got clipped but he should have been off for a HIA for 10mins there and really checked, again people need to read the law suits in rugby and see that football 100% has a problem its refusing to deal with until a massive suit happens. Saka never had any facial contact from tsimikas and the sky ****s (as per is neville, every lfc game) are talking like var were about to call the ref over.
I was convinced he was unconscious and couldn't understand how he was let back on the pitch (re.head injury protocol?)
interesting point. "removes the subjectivity to another place" the fact is people get things wrong. Plain wrong ,and that can be fixed with a review. the function is merely there to give a ref a chance to review. Its supposed to be video assisted refs so the fact they treat it like a kid in school getting his lessons checked just shows the cultural issue we actually have. rugby does a much better job of this as you've miked up refs who usually have access ot big screens in stadiums and they just review the thing and want to see it. they ask to see what they wan to and give their interpretation, their "subjectivity" have a discussion and make a call and we can all then say ok, yeah you've tried to get it right there and thats that. Its how the decisions are made thats the issue not the result of them. I've no issue with a subjective thing being tossed about and it falling where it falls but this is how is see it as of today. a) none of us know what the **** oliver thought of the handball, nor the contact with jesus. we just know he blew for one and not the other. zero explanation. b) none of us know what the var thought or what discussions might have happened between ref and var. it would take the same time to just press a mike button and say "no foul, hand struck by ball, too close to be a pen". then we all know what the ref thought, if var then don't ask him to review then e probably need again oliver to press his mike and say "VAR check over, evidence x" At least we the public would get to hear it. I'm fairly sick of hearing the sky pundits crow that they can hea it going on be we can't.
They should have some sort of algorithm/criteria /guidelines to which EVERY body acting as VAR are trained to understand and implement in an attempt to maintain consistency. We really don’t need another bloody individual acting subjectively to what he is seeing. So that instead of having one subjective ****er we have 2. And some of these VAR officials may not have the highest IQ (sorry!) and have to realise that making no intervention is actually making a decision (I.e accepting the pitch referee decision). And this mantra about VAR not refereeing the match again is absolute poppycock. Think about it. Throughout the whole match there are 2 referees as far as key decisions like goals and penalties are concerned. Even if the VAR doesn’t change a single incident during a match, it means that he had looked at the incidents and endorsed all the decisions of the pitch referee. So will be wrong if he didn’t intervene when he should have. So basically we need people with enough experience of refereeing and competence to act as VAR and make a decision. Another thing that riles me is that nonsense of “clear and obvious “. If the referee has made any mistake, then the decision should be reversed.
Lost for words really. Very diappointef with the result and largely yhe performance. I'm at a loss to understand how so many of our players have fallen so low. It's a ****ing mystery. I just hope there isn't something more fundamental wrong at the club.
I'd quite happily get rid of VAR, not just because it hasn't removed controversy and ambiguity, but because it's removed joy from the game. Players not being able to celebrate until a check is done is just terrible, it removes the entertainment and the passion.
When you saw the reaction of the players it seemed really serious and especially as a couple then rolled him onto his side into a recovery position, the thing you’d do to stop you swallowing your tongue etc. to then see him sit up, jog over the the line then moan that no foul was given was bemusing to say the least.
That Firmino one still rankles tbh. So many prejudiced "no smoke without fire" comments at the time, yet nothing from the same people when he was cleared. As with that incident I will wait for the facts.
