Arrogance

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O.Spurcat said:
I am still trying to work out how our manager, labelled the "best young coach in the PL" by someone recently, was completely outwitted and we were tanked in own backyard, by a manager who clearly came for a 0-0 draw.
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To be fair SC, Fat Sam has never lost three premier league games in a row so Avb isn't to blame .............Lol.

Whats even more embarrassing for Avb is Fat Sam was on the WUM, in the papers talking about the 100million spent on players. Just shows managers like Allrydace may be laughed at but hes more capable then we think and definitely got the better of Avb today.
 
Put simply, I believe our defenders were flattered all season through a combination of poor opposition, lucky escapes and a few moments of world class keeping by Lloris.

The luck was always due to run out one day., and with no one protecting the back four we should've anticipated a thumping at some stage during early season, I suppose. I just didn't expect it was going to be today, at home against hitherto relegation candidates.
 
District Line said:
In fairness the margin of the victory can be attributed to the fact you had to go all out at 0-2 to win the game.

There are no great teams in the current Premier League, just a few decent ones and lots of average/poor ones. It's certainly not the league it used to be and for that reason Spurs (and Arsenal/Everton/Liverpool) are contenders.

It's also not just Spurs, no team has started well and most have had a reality check.

- Chelsea fans believed Mourinho's return would be enough to bridge the gap and a return to 04/05 form was on the cards.

- United fans bought into the media claptrap and believed the Moyes transition would be a smooth and easy process.

- City fans believed Pellegrini would have them playing like Barca and results would significantly improve.

Arsenal and Liverpool fans are understandably on cloud nine but their time will come and they've both already had shock home defeats.
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Did we, which ones? Don't personally know a single Manchester United fan who thought we would walk the league like we did last year.

You way to often base your opinion on what you've read on the internet compared to actual experiences.
 
Boss said:
To be fair SC, Fat Sam has never lost three premier league games in a row so Avb isn't to blame .............Lol.

Whats even more embarrassing for Avb is Fat Sam was on the WUM, in the papers talking about the 100million spent on players. Just shows managers like Allrydace may be laughed at but hes more capable then we think and definitely got the better of Avb today.
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I actually quite like Allardyce. He knows the game inside out and he knows how to get the best out of players. When he went to West Ham, I said he would get them automatic promotion. He didn't, but he did get them up through the play offs. I like the way he asks his players to take responsibility, for example Nolan today took charge and with Noble, they controlled their shape in the middle, whereas we had no-one wanting to take any responsibility whatsoever.

Villas Boas has said today was a wake up call. it is up to him to make sure it is nothing more than that.
 
BajanSpur said:
Put simply, I believe our defenders were flattered all season through a combination of poor oppositions, lucky escapes and a few moments of world class keeping by Lloris.

The luck was always due to run out one day., and with no one protecting the back four we should've anticipated a thumping at some stage during early season, I suppose. I just didn't expect it was going to be today, at home against hitherto relegation candidates.
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With respect to you (and others), I am getting a bit fed up with Lloris being called " world class".
 
I did say west ham deserved to win...they had a game plan and more than matched us and it was not a lucky win ... they fully deserve it...I did say I dont mind lose spurs so I am kind of used to it ... my rant was purely about what I perceive to be arrogance...we left over £50m on the bench as it was 'only west ham' and played like it was our destiny to win.
Our loss against arsenal was not down to arrogance it was because they were better on the day...our last loss prior to that was fulham and that was just a poorish performance which I can accept and understand....I am struggling to remember the last time I saw us display arrogance (which is something I hate.)
 
BajanSpur said:
Just my opinion of which we are all entitled OS. You don't have to take it as a personal insult. <cool>
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No personal insult taken, but it does seem as if every time Lloris's name is mentioned, the words "world class" are never far away. Just wanted to make it clear I think he is some way from being " world class". <ok>.
 
vimhawk said:
It may well be about arrogance, but why when something goes spectacularly wrong is that suddenly the most important and representative thing (i.e. the three goals conceded in such a short time) as opposed to the two goals conceded in all the other games put together? Why is the previous strong defensive performance not highlighted as the "norm" and today's rubbish the "blip"? The rants on here are almost as if we've been performing like that all season. Clearly there are concerns, but I wonder how much more excited people would get if it had been the other way round and we'd lost all the other matches!
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No. But the trouble is that other people have been taking equally unrepresentative facts (our "miserly" defence which has conceded against both decent teams it's come up against or the fact that we're where we are in the table cos of a couple of penalties and a last-minute winner).

The truth is that we HAVE been performing that badly all season - and last season too. By which I mean the lack of space, movement, creativity in the final third. The lack of cutting edge or realistic threats.

So far our defence has come up against some of the weaker teams in the league and kept clean sheets and we've won through penalties twice and a last-minute goal. We have been very lucky. Please don't say "we dominated game x, y or z" cos of stats. Any fan can see that we really lack many of the exact same things we lacked last year and possession and shots statistics do not persuade me that we have been playing well over the last year and a bit. We simply haven't. Last year Bale's wonder goals papered over many, many cracks. And we've replaced Bale's wonder goals with SEVEN players without EPL experience, none of whom have looked ready for the EPL yet (Capoue aside but getting another very good DM was hardly the answer to any pressing problem that I could identify).

Perhaps we're not as bad as today's result suggests. But I tell you what - we're nowhere near as good as our league position suggests either this year or last. And we're nowhere near as "solid" as our defensive statistics suggest. In fact our defensive options are thinner than they have been for years and there have been plenty of dodgy displays from our defenders thus far.
 
Lenny raises a good point... We haven't been "great" to watch in some time and the clean sheets were mostly expected. We need to improve; but how much we can do in a few weeks is up in the air. At the moment I'd say we're playing about 60%. How long to get to where we need to be? Christmas? Next season? The players we have are now good enough, it's just getting them playing to potential.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Has Chelsea winning today glossed over the problems evident in the other PL games, not to mention the defeat v Basle?

He has around 6 players vying for 3 advanced midfield positions and he has a number of strikers none of whom look like making a great job of the loan striker's role - in fact, the most likely has been sent out on loan! He played Willian when it was obvious he hadn't yet been introduced to his teammates and he's frozen out Mata, who was your best player last season and whose skills have been obviously needed in some games (no goals at Utd or Everton - why didn't Mata play some part?). Mourinho may sort things out, but he's not made the best use of a very strong squad so far, IMO.

It will be interesting to see how AVB manages Paulinho. He's started well. A box to box midfielder with high energy levels who seems well suited to the PL. He's not the most skilful Brazialian, but he has a high workrate and helps Spurs control midfield. It's two months into the season, he's played most games and he's had to put in a shift for 90 minutes in each game as the pace of the game is unrelenting. He's had some long flights for club and country. It's getting cold now in the UK. There will be frost, even snow on the pitches soon. During this cold spell, teams play 4 games in 8 days. It will be a shock to him. There's no winter break like some leagues and then there's five more months of games in four different competitions (PL, FAC, LC, EL) up to the summer, then it's the World Cup. How is AVB going to manage his workload because he seems essential to the way AVB wants to play?
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I'm completely unconvinced that this guy is a UTD fan - just seems too odd to me and it doesn't add up.

Clearly a closet Spurs fan.
 
Boss said:
In all honesty you cant blame the goons and scousers for being on cloud nine as in general as a club we tend to get ahead of ourselves and there is a touch of arrogance before its warranted. I think we're all guilty of this so these results really bring everyone crashing down to earth.

There will now be a lack of confidence about our amazing defence or dominant midfield. The arrogance is in hiding until we win our next game!



As for Avb, I don't actually view his arrogance as a reason we lost, I actually share your view that he has no real plan b and he doesn't fully understand why we lost, maybe he is an arrogant man, yet all managers need that touch of arrogance yet they also need the ability to react to changes in a game and that is one area where Avb fails.
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If AVB is arrogant,he learnt from the best
 
AVB is under a hell of a lot of pressure to succeed not only for us but for himself after his so called failure at Chelsea. He has a reputation to restore and he's aware of it so when things were appearing to go well he relaxed a bit and a bit of smugness came back.
We have Villa next, two claret and blues in two matches and I'm waiting to see the result before saying anything. After a defeat like this then a draw or a narrow win will be acceptable for me.
 
I'm glad it has happened at a time where nobody is dominating. We are 3 points off the top. I just hope we can learn from this...I won't be getting pessimistic just yet.

I'm not going to blame Defoe but I will say we need Sandro,and Dembele can rotate with Paulinhio. I find them two to be too similar. That is the crux of it for me. Them two don't win the midfield. If you can win the midfield it's likely you can win the match.

The rest need to return to basics...Chirices needs to find his feet. That may take time but he is a footballing CB..something we need. Dawson is a good player but leave him in charge and he is half the player. I'm not Walker's biggest fan but ill back him and say he wasn't 100%.

AVB needs to have a few words with himself.

I think it's time to throw Lamella in. Nothing will speed up his bedding in more than minutes on the pitch.
 
"I'm glad it has happened at a time where nobody is dominating. We are 3 points off the top.
I just hope we can learn from this...I won't be getting pessimistic just yet."

Indeed. This is a timely wake-up call. Time will tell if AVB is driven by dogma.
 
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