Arrogance

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remembercolinlee

remembercolinlee

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2012
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Firstly ... West Ham totally deserved to win but the only thing that explains that performance is arrogance.

Today smacked of it.
AVB leaves £50m plus worth of strikers on the bench and plays a striker who played on a bog of a pitch on Thursday night.
Dawson signs a new contract mid week and serves up THAT performance
Why were we playing walker when he was clearly unfit?
Why play midfielders today who played on the bog pitch on thursday? Siggy, Paulinio and Dembele did sod all while Sandro and co sat on the bench feeling fully refreshed from NOT PLAYING 3 DAYS AGO!
Why wait until 65 minutes to make a change when we were clearly second best for the whole 2nd half and the later part of the 1st half?
We had an air of we are going to win this from the second we walked onto the pitch yet put in a dire performance...

Maybe people will stop talking about us as being contenders...

I rarely write articles...and almost never comment straight after a loss because of the danger of giving a knee jerk reaction...but **** me... what in the name of god was that supposed to be???
How the **** do you concede just 2 goals in 12 previous matches and then concede 3 in 12 ****ing minutes...to a team without their main strikers and who ain't scored more than 1 goal in an away game in over a year?

I hope this is a wake up call to the players and AVB and a lot of fans...cos as things stand we ain't all that! we aint aiming at being champions...we are aiming at top 4 and need to stop believing the hype if we are to make that a reality
 
Will just be a minor blip for you boys in my opinion. You are not short of options to change things up if necessary. You will be back on track next game im guessing
 
This is the biggest test for any manager in the PL these days - knowing how to use a squad of 20-25 players properly. There are two games per week for international players most weeks of the season. No player can manage 70 games per season; 40-45 is a big ask given the pace and energy of the game and the fitness levels required. Managing players' workloads to keep them fit and get the best from them consistently is a huge task.

Additionally, AVB has to integrate seven new signings who are all new to the PL. So he doesn't yet know how players will adapt - who needs to be thrown in straightaway or eased in or how these players will cope come April or May when he wants them fit and in form.

It would be harsh to say that he is not doing a good job so far, but naive to think that it's going to be plain sailing without more results like today. Teams don't suddenly gel overnight.

Another reminder of just how good SAF was at this. Nobody else has really shown they can do it well. Mourinho seems to be struggling too.
 
you've signed a lot of new players and just lost your (and one of the League's!) best player, it will take time for them to play with each other. You've got a young squad and once they click you'll be fine. Certainly not complaining about today's result though!
 
I know its been a bad result when liverpool, man utd and chelsea fans are veing supportive instead of rubbing my nose in it!
<laugh>

I agree with what you've said and have no issue with us losing but am gutted by the arrogance of the performance and team selection
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
This is the biggest test for any manager in the PL these days - knowing how to use a squad of 20-25 players properly. There are two games per week for international players most weeks of the season. No player can manage 70 games per season; 40-45 is a big ask given the pace and energy of the game and the fitness levels required. Managing players' workloads to keep them fit and get the best from them consistently is a huge task.

Additionally, AVB has to integrate seven new signings who are all new to the PL. So he doesn't yet know how players will adapt - who needs to be thrown in straightaway or eased in or how these players will cope come April or May when he wants them fit and in form.

It would be harsh to say that he is not doing a good job so far, but naive to think that it's going to be plain sailing without more results like today. Teams don't suddenly gel overnight.

Another reminder of just how good SAF was at this. Nobody else has really shown they can do it well. Mourinho seems to be struggling too.
Click to expand...

How exactly is Mourinho struggling?
 
Good rant ColinLee....! we all speak of 'time' ...granted we all know its needed but what if Avb is the wrong man to oversee this squad? if he is then he may not get the best out of this talent and players like Sandro will be ignored when its obvious we need Sandro not just for his talent but experience.
 
Drogs said:
How exactly is Mourinho struggling?
Click to expand...

Has Chelsea winning today glossed over the problems evident in the other PL games, not to mention the defeat v Basle?

He has around 6 players vying for 3 advanced midfield positions and he has a number of strikers none of whom look like making a great job of the loan striker's role - in fact, the most likely has been sent out on loan! He played Willian when it was obvious he hadn't yet been introduced to his teammates and he's frozen out Mata, who was your best player last season and whose skills have been obviously needed in some games (no goals at Utd or Everton - why didn't Mata play some part?). Mourinho may sort things out, but he's not made the best use of a very strong squad so far, IMO.

It will be interesting to see how AVB manages Paulinho. He's started well. A box to box midfielder with high energy levels who seems well suited to the PL. He's not the most skilful Brazialian, but he has a high workrate and helps Spurs control midfield. It's two months into the season, he's played most games and he's had to put in a shift for 90 minutes in each game as the pace of the game is unrelenting. He's had some long flights for club and country. It's getting cold now in the UK. There will be frost, even snow on the pitches soon. During this cold spell, teams play 4 games in 8 days. It will be a shock to him. There's no winter break like some leagues and then there's five more months of games in four different competitions (PL, FAC, LC, EL) up to the summer, then it's the World Cup. How is AVB going to manage his workload because he seems essential to the way AVB wants to play?
 
It may well be about arrogance, but why when something goes spectacularly wrong is that suddenly the most important and representative thing (i.e. the three goals conceded in such a short time) as opposed to the two goals conceded in all the other games put together? Why is the previous strong defensive performance not highlighted as the "norm" and today's rubbish the "blip"? The rants on here are almost as if we've been performing like that all season. Clearly there are concerns, but I wonder how much more excited people would get if it had been the other way round and we'd lost all the other matches!
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Has Chelsea winning today glossed over the problems evident in the other PL games, not to mention the defeat v Basle?

He has around 6 players vying for 3 advanced midfield positions and he has a number of strikers none of whom look like making a great job of the loan striker's role - in fact, the most likely has been sent out on loan! He played Willian when it was obvious he hadn't yet been introduced to his teammates and he's frozen out Mata, who was your best player last season and whose skills have been obviously needed in some games (no goals at Utd or Everton - why didn't Mata play some part?). Mourinho may sort things out, but he's not made the best use of a very strong squad so far, IMO.
Click to expand...

Frozen out Mata who has started 3 out of the last 4 games played 45 minutes in the other <doh>
 
District Line said:
Frozen out Mata who has started 3 out of the last 4 games played 45 minutes in the other <doh>
Click to expand...

I feel there's no point replying, we're third, lost 1 drawn 2 at arguably the toughest places to go to in the League. Basel was our only concern. United are the only team 'struggling' out of last season's top 6.
 
remembercolinlee said:
I know its been a bad result when liverpool, man utd and chelsea fans are veing supportive instead of rubbing my nose in it!
<laugh>

I agree with what you've said and have no issue with us losing but am gutted by the arrogance of the performance and team selection
Click to expand...

In fairness the margin of the victory can be attributed to the fact you had to go all out at 0-2 to win the game.

There are no great teams in the current Premier League, just a few decent ones and lots of average/poor ones. It's certainly not the league it used to be and for that reason Spurs (and Arsenal/Everton/Liverpool) are contenders.

It's also not just Spurs, no team has started well and most have had a reality check.

- Chelsea fans believed Mourinho's return would be enough to bridge the gap and a return to 04/05 form was on the cards.

- United fans bought into the media claptrap and believed the Moyes transition would be a smooth and easy process.

- City fans believed Pellegrini would have them playing like Barca and results would significantly improve.

Arsenal and Liverpool fans are understandably on cloud nine but their time will come and they've both already had shock home defeats.
 
Drogs said:
I feel there's no point replying, we're third, lost 1 drawn 2 at arguably the toughest places to go to in the League. Basel was our only concern. United are the only team 'struggling' out of last season's top 6.
Click to expand...

He's usually extremely biased to be fair.

Old Trafford - Champions. Monday Night. Moyes first game. Super Cup Final round the corner.
Goodison Park - No home loss in 2013
WHL - One home loss in 2013
Carrow Road - Villa only team to have won there in 2013

Won all our home games against teams we should beat. We were equally as unconvincing in the opening stages of the 2009/10 season only this year our run in has been tougher.

From where I'm sat the Manchester clubs are the only two from the top 6/7 that have less points than expected.
 
District Line said:
In fairness the margin of the victory can be attributed to the fact you had to go all out at 0-2 to win the game.

There are no great teams in the current Premier League, just a few decent ones and lots of average/poor ones. It's certainly not the league it used to be and for that reason Spurs (and Arsenal/Everton/Liverpool) are contenders.

It's also not just Spurs, no team has started well and most have had a reality check.

- Chelsea fans believed Mourinho's return would be enough to bridge the gap and a return to 04/05 form was on the cards.

- United fans bought into the media claptrap and believed the Moyes transition would be a smooth and easy process.

- City fans believed Pellegrini would have them playing like Barca and results would significantly improve.

Arsenal and Liverpool fans are understandably on cloud nine but their time will come and they've both already had shock home defeats.
Click to expand...

In all honesty you cant blame the goons and scousers for being on cloud nine as in general as a club we tend to get ahead of ourselves and there is a touch of arrogance before its warranted. I think we're all guilty of this so these results really bring everyone crashing down to earth.

There will now be a lack of confidence about our amazing defence or dominant midfield. The arrogance is in hiding until we win our next game!



As for Avb, I don't actually view his arrogance as a reason we lost, I actually share your view that he has no real plan b and he doesn't fully understand why we lost, maybe he is an arrogant man, yet all managers need that touch of arrogance yet they also need the ability to react to changes in a game and that is one area where Avb fails.
 
Boss said:
In all honesty you cant blame the goons and scousers for being on cloud nine as in general as a club we tend to get ahead of ourselves and there is a touch of arrogance before its warranted. I think we're all guilty of this so these results really bring everyone crashing down to earth.

There will now be a lack of confidence about our amazing defence or dominant midfield. The arrogance is in hiding until we win our next game!



As for Avb, I don't actually view his arrogance as a reason we lost, I actually share your view that he has no real plan b and he doesn't fully understand why we lost, maybe he is an arrogant man, yet all managers need that touch of arrogance yet they also need the ability to react to changes in a game and that is one area where Avb fails.
Click to expand...

I am still trying to work out how our manager, labelled the "best young coach in the PL" by someone recently, was completely outwitted and we were tanked in own backyard, by a manager who clearly came for a 0-0 draw.
 
Thanks Spurcat. 1999 ay, and we are complaining and sniveling? Let them enjoy their day because they don't beat us all that often do they? It'll probably be another 14 years before they win at WHL again.

I was asked to admit that Defoe was a good squad player so I'm asking you to be sportsmen and congratulate West Ham or their supporters.
 
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